More delays for the new DirecTiVo?

DirecTV Logo Way back in September, 2008, TiVo and DirecTV re-united and promised a new DirecTV DVR with TiVo (aka DirecTiVo) ‘in the second half of 2009′. Well, as 2009 rolled along the new box was delayed until late 2010. This has generally been blamed on the economic collapse and DirecTV cutting back on things like R&D spending, shuffling priorities, etc. Which is, frankly, quite understandable. A lot of companies had to re-prioritize for the new economic environment.

So as we approached late 2010 DirecTV delayed the new DirecTiVo again, this time to ‘early 2011′. The explanation at the time was that they didn’t want to launch a new product into the channel just before the holidays. OK, I guess I can see that. A lot of retailers lock down holidays plans months in advance, and if DirecTV waited too long they wouldn’t have any shelf space allocated for the new units. You want to launch a new product in time for the holidays, not during the holiday shopping season – and product launches start months ahead of when consumers see the product.

Of course, ‘early 2011′ has come and gone, and clearly the new DirecTiVo has yet to arrive. At some point ‘early 2011′ morphed into ’2011′, and qualifiers like ‘hopeful’ started to show up. There was even some recent speculation that the new DirecTiVo might ship this month.

However, those hopes appear to be dashed. Now the DirecTV FAQ page for the new DirecTiVo says they are ‘optimistic’ that it will be available for purchase in 2011, but also that it has not yet been approved for production.

Will DIRECTV offer a new TiVo HD DVR?

We continue our partnership with TiVo to develop a new TiVo HD DVR from DIRECTV. The launch date is still to be determined, pending production approval. Product development is a complex exercise, and TiVo and DIRECTV are jointly committed to providing our customers with the high quality products we are both known for.

We apologize that the process has taken longer than anticipated. Once the product is approved for production, we will communicate a target launch date. We are optimistic that the new TiVo HD DVR from DIRECTV will be available for purchase in calendar year 2011.

For now we can tell you that the new TiVo HD DVR will have:

  • Access to over 160 HD channels
  • DIRECTV CINEMA™, with thousands of shows and movies to watch instantly
  • TiVo Integrated Search across TV and Video on Demand
  • TiVo WishList® Searches, Suggestions and KidZone
  • DIRECTV DVR Scheduler

Personally that doesn’t fill me with confidence.

Now, I want to make an important point here – I don’t think this is TiVo’s fault. A lot of people have complained at/to TiVo about the delays, but they’re not in control. Remember this is a DirecTV product, not a TiVo product! TiVo is a supplier and contractor to DirecTV for this. Unlike the original DirecTiVo boxes, the new unit is not based on a TiVo-designed reference platform. It was previously announced that the hardware will be supplied by Technicolor (formerly known as Thomson), and TiVo is integrating their software with the platform under contract to DirecTV.

DirecTV controls the schedule, they control the product specifications, they decide on the features, they control the budget, etc. For a while now TiVo has been mentioning the new box on their quarterly calls and clearly stating that they hope DirecTV will decide to release it soon, but that the decision rests with DirecTV. On the most recent call TiVo’s CEO, Tom Rogers, stated that there was continuing work to implement new features for the product and he was hopeful it would ship in 2011.

There have been rumors and reports that the DirecTiVo is already out of date, that DirecTV’s specs for the unit were set in 2008 and in the meantime they’ve added a number of features to their non-TiVo DVRs (in-home sharing, etc.) which wouldn’t be on the DirecTiVo. A long time ago now it was reported that the new DirecTiVo would use the old, SD TiVo UI and not the new HD UI. Even that the hardware was based on the old HR22 DirecTV DVR. I have some hope that TiVo’s statements, and the continuing delays, mean they’ve taken steps to update the product specs to launch a truly competitive product when it comes to market. Who knows which of the old reports are still true given the time that has passed, of if the were even accurate to start with.

Of course, no one but the insiders knows the truth, and they’re not talking. But I think there is some pretty strong circumstantial evidence that TiVo isn’t the cause of the delay. Since the announcement in 2008 TiVo designed the TiVo Premiere and brought it to market. They integrated OnDemand support into the software, and launched the platform with MSOs RCN & Suddenlink. They announced their deal with Virgin Media and have very successfully launched with them in the UK – and I’ll note that’s also on non-TiVo-designed hardware, the box is from Cisco. They have similar deals with other MSOs, like ONO in Spain, using the same HW as the UK.

They’ve also designed the TiVo Premiere Elite and TiVo Preview, and those appear to be headed to market later this year. At least through MSOs, if not also via retail.

So TiVo has repeatedly shown that they can successfully execute new products in the time since the new DirecTiVo deal was announced. It doesn’t seem logical that they’d be able to execute all of these other projects, and yet would be unable to complete the new DirecTiVo. And, if the reports are true, the Technicolor HW isn’t a radical change from STBs they already produce. So I don’t think the problem is the HW. Or even the integration of the SW & HW.

My feeling, based on what I know and my experience in the tech industry, is that the delays are due to the project coordinator – DirecTV. The best case scenario is that it is a case of creeping featurism; they keep extending the product specifications and have to add more development time to meet the new goals. The worst case is that it is just management decisions and they’re delaying the product without using the time to continuously improve it. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

In any case, it isn’t what those waiting for the new DirecTiVo want to hear. At this point they just want a shipping box. Hopefully one that avoids the Duke Nuke’m Forever syndrome – waiting forever and getting a product that makes you wonder why you bothered waiting

For all of you waiting for the box, this is exactly why you want the FCC to push AllVid on the satellite companies. If they had to open up to third parties, as cable had to do with CableCARD, vendors like TiVo could produce compatible products on their own schedule, not the satellite company’s.

About MegaZone

MegaZone is the Editor of Gizmo Lovers and the chief contributor. He's been online since 1989 and active in several generations of 'social media' - mailing lists, USENet groups, web forums, and since 2003, blogging.    MegaZone has a presence on several social platforms: Google+ / Facebook / Twitter / LinkedIn / LiveJournal / Web.    You can also follow Gizmo Lovers on other sites: Blog / Google+ / Facebook / Twitter.
This entry was posted in DirecTV, TiVo and tagged , , . Bookmark the permalink.
  • http://twitter.com/sbiller Sam Biller

    MegaZone, am I the only one who feels that this message is a slightly positive development? They have clarified a release date and have highlighted and amplified on the feature set to be included in the release.

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      This is what, the fourth release date?  What makes this one any more credible than late 2009?  Or late 2010?  Or early 2011?  At this point I really have trouble putting any faith into any date they announce.  Now it is “I’ll believe it when it ships.”

      There really isn’t much change in the feature set from what was previously announced.  The ‘integrated search across TV and VOD’ replaced ‘Universal Swivel Search’ in the description.  That *could* mean they’ve switched to the new UI, which has that feature on the Premiere, or it could just be the ‘TiVo Search’ HME-based interface.

      Since KidZone is only available in the SD UI today, the fact it is called out is actually not encouraging for the HD UI.

      DirecTV DVR Scheduler is a new item that I don’t think was specifically mentioned before, but it isn’t surprising.

      But, in the end, nothing they list matters if the box doesn’t actually ship someday.

      • http://twitter.com/sbiller Sam Biller

        Agree that it will be SDUI but is that really a huge negative for DIRECTV? I’m not sure but does DTV’s other offering offer HDUI features equivalent to FIOS 1.9? Bottom-line for the general non-techy public is they’ll get TiVo features with full HD support and integrated DTV VOD. I think you’ll may be underestimating the attractiveness of the product.

        The part that is really difficult to answer is whether DTV will release this just to fulfill their “legal” obligations or if they really plan on marketing it to their customers.

      • CuriousMark

        Perhaps DTV asked them to integrate the search into the old UI instead of bringing the new UI as you suggest *could* be happening.  Taking the search into the old UI sounds like a big job, perhaps that accounts for some of feature creep imposed delays.  It will be very interesting to see it when it comes out.

        • http://twitter.com/sbiller Sam Biller

          I’m guessing that the UI will look very similar to my Series 3 / TiVo HD. There will be elements in HD like the unified search but most of it will be SD. It would be great if TiVo could put some of the more common features like the program guide in HD as well but that is probably asking too much.

          Personally, I’m a fan of the TiVo Search on my Series 3 with my TiVo slide remote. I think the performance is adequate for the times I need to perform a search across all content.

        • http://twitter.com/sbiller Sam Biller

          I’m guessing that the UI will look very similar to my Series 3 / TiVo HD. There will be elements in HD like the unified search but most of it will be SD. It would be great if TiVo could put some of the more common features like the program guide in HD as well but that is probably asking too much.

          Personally, I’m a fan of the TiVo Search on my Series 3 with my TiVo slide remote. I think the performance is adequate for the times I need to perform a search across all content.

    • http://twitter.com/davezatz Dave Zatz

      I was sure we’d have a summer announcement… until I read about the new language on Investor Village. Not in production yet? Optimistic? Perhaps they should just abort like the Comcast TiVo. Probably cheaper, long term, for DTV to just license TiVo IP and be done with it.

    • http://twitter.com/davezatz Dave Zatz

      I was sure we’d have a summer announcement… until I read about the new language on Investor Village. Not in production yet? Optimistic? Perhaps they should just abort like the Comcast TiVo. Probably cheaper, long term, for DTV to just license TiVo IP and be done with it.

  • Tom Robertson

    Wow. Lots of information that is counter to the redacted contract that was (likely is still available) and sure ignores a huge amount of history.

    Quote: Remember this is a DirecTV product, not a TiVo product!

    Only insofar as it is DIRECTV (not DirecTV) hardware. The product is a TiVo product in all other aspects in that TiVo it will be a TiVo labeled product.

    Quote: DirecTV controls the schedule, they control the product specifications,
    they decide on the features, they control the budget, etc.

    Not according to the contract. DIRECTV only pays part of the bills. The specifications were set years ago and TiVo still hasn’t delivered on the phase 1 requirements. In that time, DIRECTV has added new features to their HR2x series and can’t add them to the TiVo unit until phase 2 is started.

    Quote: But I think there is some pretty strong circumstantial evidence that TiVo isn’t the cause of the delay.

    Evidence that TiVo isn’t the delay? How about Comcast, Cox, Premier, HD, etc. In short, every TiVo production has been deleted incredibly. Software upgrades trickle. In 5 years DIRECTV has gone from nothing to beyond TiVo feature for feature with two major exceptions: 1) TiVoToGo and 2) being completely hacked and insecure. 1) TiVo2Go can’t be done on DIRECTV equipment because of DRM issues, and 2) DIRECTV can’t let the HR2x be hacked like the TiVos. :)

    Quote: My feeling, based on what I know and my experience in the tech industry,
    is that the delays are due to the project coordinator – DirecTV.

    Again, according the to contract DIRECTV has no involvement in the development once the primary specifications were set in 2008. All development was entirely within TiVo’s control. The only final involvement DIRECTV has is final QA. If it doesn’t pass muster, DIRECTV won’t let it fly.  That is isn’t flying implies it either isn’t done or isn’t done right.

    Cheers,
    Tom

    • http://www.gizmolovers.com/ MegaZone

      Can you provide a link to this contract? I searched for it but didn’t find anything but a couple of references to it with no links.

      Either way, any contract from 2008 may not be the contract in place today. It is routine for companies to renegotiate contracts, especially if there is a delay or a change in requirements. Any terms from the original contract may bear no resemblance to the current contract. I’ve seen that first hand through my job, especially on long projects. Sometimes the final contract is unrecognizable from the first. The new DirecTiVo has been delayed so long I’d actually be surprised if they were still working from the original terms.

      As for the other things you’ve cited – the Comcast & Cox OCAP software development is generally believed to have failed not due to problems from TiVo, but issues with the power available in the existing STBs that it was running on. Performance was never good running the native OS, the pre-OCAP middleware on top of that, and then the TiVo application on top of that. Not to mention delays in getting the head end updates done that were required to deploy the boxes. Remember Comcast was supposed to have OCAP fully deployed by July, 2010 – it is July, 2011 and there is no sign they’re even proceeding let alone near completion. The ‘soft-TiVo’ was dependent on the cable MSOs updating their infrastructure to support OCAP to use the software deployment mechanisms, handle two-way communication, etc. When that stalled the soft-TiVo was already pretty much doomed.

      Your claim that ‘every TiVo production[sic] has been deleted[sic] incredibly’ (I presume you mean every TiVo product has been delayed) doesn’t hold up. The Premiere shipped when they said it would. I won’t argue that it had issues – it certainly did, and still has some – but they shipped what they said they’d ship, when they said they’d ship it. The Virgin Media TiVo has been a huge success. They delivered MSO hardware to RCN & Suddenlink as planned. They’ve developed the Premiere Elite and Preview and had stated they will ship to MSOs later this year – retail is still up in the air, waiting on the FCC.

      I don’t know about software updates ‘trickling’ out – TiVo has long had a pattern of one or two major software updates a year, with a couple of minor updates in between. If anything they’ve pushed more updates since the Premiere launched than they did with prior products. I do think that’s partly to deal with issues the Premiere has had, but I definitely would not call it a trickle.

      There’s no argument that DirecTV has improved their products – that’s to be expected. I would not say they’ve pulled ahead of TiVo though. They still lack some basic DVR features that TiVo has, and nearly all of the networking and OTT features.

      Your claim that Tivo is ‘completely hacked and insecure’ is weak as well. You forget that the DRM on TiVoToGo transfers – reverse engineered or not – was approved. And there are other options DirecTV could use – like DTCP-IP. Just about every DRM system has been cracked – DVD CSS, Blu-ray AACS, iTunes FairPlay, etc. That’s a strawman argument. Even TTG doesn’t allow transfers of content if it is flagged to disallow it, and I’m not aware of any hack to get around that. The current TiVo platform has comparable security to other equivalent CE devices. They had to do so to get their deals with the likes of Netflix and Hulu.

      It isn’t ‘DirecTV HW’ – it is Technicolor HW. DirecTV isn’t designing or producing the HW. We’ve never officially been told what the HW will be. There have been rumors, such as that it would be similar to the HR22, but nothing official. Even if HR22 HW was used in testing, it may not be the final box, I’ve seen that before. Or HR22 chassis could be used with new internals – I’ve seen that as well. Or it could be that the original HW, for 2009, was based on the then-recent HR22 but things have changed.

      But no matter what you say, in the end it is a DirecTV product. The original DirecTiVo is also considered a DirecTV product – by both DirecTV and TiVo. The Pioneer, Toshiba, and Humax units that used TiVo software were not TiVo products – they were products of their respective vendors. Yes, they carry TiVo branding – but a Dell PC is not an Intel product just because it says ‘Intel Inside’. Or a MS product because it runs Windows. Or a Western Digital product because it uses their hard drive. Get the point?

      TiVo is a component vendor and contractor to DirecTV. The component they’re providing is the software, and they’re contracted to do the integration with the hardware. The new box has less TiVo content than the old units – the old units were designed on TiVo reference platforms.

      But lets put all of this aside and say you’re right, they’re working from the 2008 contract with no modifications. DirecTV basically hands TiVo an existing box and says “put your software on this, and this is what we want it to do”, and sends them on their way. And all DirecTV is doing is QA and final approval. They could still drag it out by delaying payments, unless payment schedules were dictated. (Of course, this is presuming they’re sticking with the contract, remember – in the real world they could do it by renegotiating the schedule anyway.)

      Or they could be unrealistic in QA. Every product has bugs. Everything. They could drag out testing to be ‘extra thorough’, and then pick nits, sending the software back to be reworked. Of course, you’d have to be a bit conspiracy minded to think that they’d do this – but some people believe they’ve doing exactly this to burn time to see how TiVo’s legal battles play out. And now to wait for the poison pill to expire later this year. If TiVo is about be to acquired, potentially by a competitor to DirecTV, it might give them an out in the contract. Say EchoStar acquired TiVo, for example.

      I don’t know that I buy into these theories, but they’re within the realm of possibility. I’ve seen some bizarre things during my career.

      Personally I don’t think the 2008 contract is still in force. I think the terms have been changed as well as the product specifications. I flat out do not believe that it would take TiVo over three years to integrate their software with the existing HW, unless the HW had some serious limitations that blocked them, or there were other, external, factors holding them back. They were able to port the TIVo software to the Cisco platform and have it deployed to customers in just over a year. The deal was announced in November 2009, and it deployed to customers in January, 2011. And the Virgin Media box is more advanced that what the rumors report the new DirecTiVo to be.

      I think it is most likely that, given the long delays, they decided to scrap the original product and try again with an updated box. At least I’m hopeful that’s the reason – TiVo did announce an independent deal with Technicolor to develop advanced DVR solutions in May of 2010. Perhaps that’s feeding into the new DirecTivo effort as well.

      In the end this is all speculation, of course. None of us knows the facts – and the people who do are under NDA and unlikely to share them in public. I’m just going on the bits I’ve heard through the grapevine, the rumors I’ve read, and my experience. I could well be completely wrong. You could be right. We could both be wrong and the conspiracy theorists right. Only time will tell.

      • CuriousMark

        “I flat out do not believe that it would take TiVo over three years to integrate their software with the existing HW, unless the HW had some serious limitations that blocked them, or there were other, external, factors holding them back.”

        One speculation is that TiVo was required to add support for active channels.  This would be developed from scratch by TiVo and need support from NDS who developed the DTS implementation and DTS server side infrastructure.  There are even redacted sections of the contract dealing with how DTV is obligated to make sure other subcontractors needed to support this pull their weight.  (I don’t have the link anymore, sorry)  That is a heck of a lot of UI work they needed to do to get stuff working.

         ”They were able to port the TIVo software to the Cisco platform and have it deployed to customers in just over a year. The deal was announced in November 2009, and it deployed to customers in January, 2011. And the Virgin Media box is more advanced that what the rumors report the new DirecTiVo to be.”

        For those they weren’t required to implement legacy features onto an older weaker hardware infrastructure, so they have actually been easier to do.

      • CuriousMark

        “I flat out do not believe that it would take TiVo over three years to integrate their software with the existing HW, unless the HW had some serious limitations that blocked them, or there were other, external, factors holding them back.”

        One speculation is that TiVo was required to add support for active channels.  This would be developed from scratch by TiVo and need support from NDS who developed the DTS implementation and DTS server side infrastructure.  There are even redacted sections of the contract dealing with how DTV is obligated to make sure other subcontractors needed to support this pull their weight.  (I don’t have the link anymore, sorry)  That is a heck of a lot of UI work they needed to do to get stuff working.

         ”They were able to port the TIVo software to the Cisco platform and have it deployed to customers in just over a year. The deal was announced in November 2009, and it deployed to customers in January, 2011. And the Virgin Media box is more advanced that what the rumors report the new DirecTiVo to be.”

        For those they weren’t required to implement legacy features onto an older weaker hardware infrastructure, so they have actually been easier to do.

      • Tom Robertson

        Indeed, you made some strong statements about who you feel is definitely in control. (and I made a few typos in my reply.) :)

        If there were any material changes in a new contract, TiVo or DIRECTV would have to announce them. So I doubt there is a new contract. You should supply some information regarding that speculation as it would be public.

        TiVo has consistently listed DIRECTV’s development payments on a quarterly basis, so we know development has been ongoing.

        You site Premier has having issues, though it shipped on time. Therein likely also lies the truth of the DIRECTV-TiVo. TiVo thinks it is as ready as Premier and so does DIRECTV. Whereas TiVo might ship a product in such a state, DIRECTV no longer will. :)

        Of course the TiVo’s have been hacked to death. Look to several  websites on how to add any number of features or download content to your PC, directly in digital form. DIRECTV’s requirements for security are stringent as they have relationships with the studios that TiVo does not.

        By the way, DTCP-IP is not a storage DRM approach. It would not suffice in TiVo2Go, on disk storage, nor prevent access to the root command line.  

        I found the redacted agreement again. It is a document attached to an SEC Filing: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1088825/000119312508251359/dex107.htm

        The agreement is an extension of what I believe to be the original agreement between the two companies, so it lists several development projects including “Reno” and “Provo”, the original DIRECTiVos and now the “DIRECTV TE” product.

        There many important sections describing the statement of work for DIRECTV TE. And how TiVo is to be paid regardless if DIRECTV drags its heels.

        Face it, TiVo was in control of delivery up to the point of final approval. If TiVo can’t deliver a quality product, DIRECTV won’t release it.

        Cheers,
        Tom

  • Pingback: Whither DirecTiVo? | Gizmo Lovers Blog

  • Pingback: DirecTV TiVo HD DVR, aka DirecTiVo, Now In Manufacturing – Actually Launching Soon?! | Gizmo Lovers Blog