TiVo HD - aka Series3 Lite - announced and reviewed
Well, I teased you a bit earlier with the press release and scans of the TiVo HD flier.
I was really buying a little time since I had a couple of hiccups getting my full review up and ready to go. 
As with the Series3 review I did last fall, I’ve reviewed the new TiVo HD. And, as with the S3, I took a large number of photographs of the unit, inside and out. There were certainly some surprises inside the unit, which should fuel quite a bit of speculation.
Speaking of speculation, some of the past speculation was on the mark - but some of it was off target.
From the TiVoCommunity.com post:
Unconfirmed Series3 “Lite” Specifications (TCD652160)
- BCM740x DVR CPU w/ integrated MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 decoders
- 1x dual MPEG-2 encoder (BCM7041 or possibly an encoder from LSI)
- 2x Samsung S5H1411-based tuners (analog/QAM/8VSB)
- 128Mb DDR SDRAM
- 160Gb SATA HD
- Smaller, lower-cost PCB
- Cheaper power supply
- No THX certification
- No OLED display
- Standard Tivo remote
- $299 MSRP
The CPU is correct - a BCM7401, the unit does have 128MB of RAM, and a 160GB SATA drive. The board is new and lower cost, as well as the power supply. No THX certification, no OLED display, an S2-style remote, and the $299.99 price point.
However, the speculation on the tuners and encoders missed the mark - read the review to see what’s really in there.
TiVo has re-done their homepage to feature the TiVo HD, you can pre-order it now. The official TiVoHD page is here, as well as the specifications, and FAQs.
WeaKnees and DVRupgrade are already offering the TiVo HD for pre-order. Both the basic 160GB unit for $299, as well as expanded units, up to 1TB. It looks like DVRUpgrade has better pricing on the larger models, and purchasing from DVRupgrade through these links supports the site.
If you order the TiVo HD from Amazon
Dave Zatz has posted the new boot video to YouTube.
As always, if you activate a new TiVo, the TiVo Rewards Referral is appreciated.
Site Updates RSS
![[Valid RSS]](http://www.gizmolovers.com/Images/valid-rss.png "Validate my RSS
feed"){kind=small}
July 24th, 2007 at 07:23
If I switch to the Tivo HD from my current Series 2 unit, will I still be able to use my Tivo Wireless Network Adapter? Since it’s USB, I’m thinking (and hoping) so … would just like confirmation.
July 24th, 2007 at 07:24
Yes. In fact, the TiVo-branded WiFi adapter is the *only* one that works with the TiVo HD.
July 24th, 2007 at 07:25
Jeez. Shoulda checked the FAQ before posting. “Yes” is the answer …
http://tivo.com/whatistivo/tivohd/faqs/index.html#16
July 24th, 2007 at 07:44
Did you have a chance to measure the power consumption?
July 24th, 2007 at 07:48
Sorry, I don’t known a Kill-A-Watt to test the power draw.
July 24th, 2007 at 10:15
Does it need a phone line for initial setup, or can it work over an ethernet connection? (my current and only tivo is a Philips 708 DirecTivo so I’m behind the times on setup procedure on these modern ones).
July 24th, 2007 at 14:17
What a thorough review! Nice job. I’m waiting for the eSATA port and multi-room viewing to be enabled, which I was told TiVo is working on a fix before the end of the year.
July 24th, 2007 at 15:35
Stephen - Setup can be done over the network. TiVo hasn’t required a phone line for a while now - all current units, the S2DT, S3, and TiVo HD can use the network for Guided Setup.
Gadgetress - Nice to see you here.
And thank you. TiVo said eSATA ‘this fall’ and TTG/MRV by the end of the year, so keep your fingers crossed.
July 24th, 2007 at 15:38
I just looked at your excellent, high-resolution PCB shots.
The two NANYA 16MB DDR400 parts aren’t connected to the Philips/NXT SAA7138CHL ADCs at all. That memory is used exclusively by the VIXS XCode 2115 IC. Moreover, the Broadcom BCM7401 clearly has access to the full 256Mb DDR400 — twice as much memory as the Series3.
It’s looking more and more like the old Series3 is the real “Lite” version. Let’s summarize:
- It lacks the 250Gb hard drive.
- It lacks THX certification.
- It lacks the slick, learning remote.
- It lacks the bundled HDMI cable.
- It supports MCARDs out of the box.
- It doubles the amount of system memory from 128MB to 256MB.
- It adds a newer CPU that is ~7% faster (according to Broadcom).
- It adds newer QAM/VSB demodulation chips for potentially improved OTA reception.
- It adds dedicated EMI shielding for the tuners.
- It incorporates MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 SD->SD and HD->SD transcoding hardware, perfect for TivoToGo, MRV with older Series2 Tivos, and/or for content that Tivo cannot obtain Cable Labs approval to pass in its original digital form. The real-time transcoding eliminates the need to do that in software, reducing the licensing fees for the Tivo Desktop software.
- It consumes less power.
July 24th, 2007 at 17:08
Am I’m mis-reading the part numbers? The Nanya chips look like 8MB and 32MB parts to me, not 16MB and 64MB. It looks like 8MB per encoder and 128MB total, not 16MB and 256MB.
TiVo has confirmed for me that the ViXS XCode-2115 is a “dual MPEG encoding chip”, but they declined to get into specifics on what it does. I’m still asking around.
As for the dedicated EMI shielding - the tuners in the S3 were in separate shielded modules that stood off from the motherboard, so that’s not new, right?
The TiVo HD does look like very interesting hardware - and you didn’t touch on the analog inputs or the 3rd SATA header. The platform seems to have serious legs.
July 24th, 2007 at 17:33
The 3rd SATA connector and down conversion support for 1080p is interesting. I’d love to see an HD Tivo with an integrated Blu-ray player. It would make the Tivo a true media hub for the home.
July 24th, 2007 at 17:44
Ah… I got your link to the specs on the chips and I think you may be right about the RAM. I’ve emailed TiVo to ask.
July 24th, 2007 at 17:46
You must be misreading the memory parts. You are interpreting each NT5DS32M16BS-5U as a 32 Megabyte part. The number on the chip does not refer to Megabytes.
Values on memory parts are always stated in bits. Memory chips are organized like tables (think Excel). In this case, the important piece of information is 32M16. That’s 32 deep by 16 wide, or 512 Mbits. As you know, there are 8 bits in a byte.
Parts with 128M4, 64M8, and 32M16 all refer to the same size.
The two NT5DS8M16FS-5T parts connected to the XCode-2115 are 8 deep by 16 wide, or 16 Megabytes each. If you want something to reference in your article, you can link to the NT5DS32M16BS-5U datasheet on NANYA’s site(scroll to bottom).
http://www.nanya.com/PageEdition3.aspx?Menu_ID=57&def=210&lan=en-us
On the subject of the SATA header…have you seen anything that could be a SATA controller? The BCM7401 is only supposed to have a single SATA controller, so there is no way it could support three SATA headers.
Good point on the separate shielded PCI cards. You are absolutely right.
July 24th, 2007 at 19:18
TiVo HD Arrives…
Yeah, I’m a TiVo believer. This thing liberates me from thinking about television shows and schedules - I live my life and watch what I want when I want to instead of thinking “gosh, I better get home Wednesday night or I’ll miss Lost…
July 24th, 2007 at 20:18
A couple things. I looked into that NXP encoder and according to the only NXP google result for the SAA7138 it isn’t an MPEG encoder. It just turns analog video into the input to an MPEG encoder. So that makes the Vixs part just the MPEG encoder and not co-processor/transcoder/chip-of-mystery. As for eSATA, in your pictures I see a part hidden under the SATA cables that seems to fit the bill: http://www.siliconimage.com/products/product.aspx?id=103 Nothing too fancy.
July 24th, 2007 at 20:24
aml - Yeah, I actually just posted a revision to the review and I need to update the FAQ next. The Philips/NXT chips aren’t the encoders, they seem to be basically the ‘tuners’ for digital content based on what TiVoCommunity.com has come up with. The ViXS chip is a dual-MPEG encoder, and it seems to handle the encoding for both tuners for analog content. The chip also has CableCARD M-Card support, and transcoding abilities. But right now it looks like it is mainly the encoder for analog content and the M-Card interface. Thanks for the pointer to the SATA controller.
July 24th, 2007 at 20:40
Still no satellite support. Unbelievable!
I have 3 Series-2 Tivos, but just got 2 new HDTVs. Looks like the end of the road for me as a Tivo customer… Very sad, but I don’t see any option.
It’s hard to understand why Tivo is writing off such a big portion of it’s customer base. As Tivo’s satellite customers go HD, they’re forced to take their money elsewhere. If I were a Tivo investor, I’d be concerned.
July 24th, 2007 at 20:51
I understand the frustration, but this has been covered many times since the original S3 was released.
Satellite is a *closed system*. 3rd parties, like TiVo, are not allowed to build receivers for DirecTV or Dish Network. The only effective way to record HD is to access the digital stream directly. TiVo *cannot* do that without access, which is not available.
The only way for a 3rd party to record from satellite is to take the signal from an external satellite receiver. This limits you to *SD* recording - and that’s what the S2DT, and the S2 before it, does. Encoding HD from component video is not feasible with current consumer level hardware. The only component capture devices that are in consumer price ranges first down-sample the HD content to SD, then encode the SD video - see the Slingbox Pro and various PC capture devices. Recording from HDMI isn’t possible because of HDCP.
It is not hard to understand *at all*, it is simply impossible for TiVo to do it - at least economically. Case closed. This is not a *choice* for TiVo, it is simple something they are not allowed to do by the satellite providers.
If you don’t like it, complain to the satellite companies and ask them why they don’t open their systems up to 3rd party vendors. It is NOT a technological problem. Or ask the FCC why they exempted satellite from the rules that forced cable to implement CableCARD to open systems up to 3rd parties. The FCC deliberately exempted satellite carriers from the rules, allowing them to remain closed systems.
July 24th, 2007 at 21:16
Sounds like BS to me…
My HDTV gets an HD signal from the cable box.
Satellite providers sell PVRs that record HD.
Mythtv can record HD from a satellite box.
Why can’t Tivo record the HD signal coming out of the satellite receiver, like Mythtv can be made to do? the IR interface on Series-2 ain’t pretty, but it works.
I think that it’s more of a political, sour grapes, move by Tivo, than intentional interference from the satellite providers.
It’s financial suicide by Tivo, writing off probably half of their current and potential subscribers.
In my case, the dollars that I send Tivo every month for 3 boxes will soon be going to Dish Network (for what I admit are much poorer PVRs). I don’t think that I’m the only one left at the end of the road by Tivo wanting HD and satellite.
July 24th, 2007 at 21:46
Please show me how MythTV can record *HD* coming out of the satellite receiver. I would like a link to the source. Make sure it isn’t recording SD output from an HD receiver, or using a down-sampling card and only recording an SD version on the drive. Let me know when you have the link. (The only hope is FireWire output of the raw MPEG video - but then HD channels are generally 5C encrypted, making it a non-starter - and most receivers don’t have FW anyway.)
If you’re recording SD, then there is no reason to have expensive hardware like the S3 or even TiVo HD, because it won’t do any better than an S2DT will. So it would be foolish to raise the cost of the HD units by adding unnecessary hardware - just sell the S2DT.
Satellite providers sell DVRs that record HD because they have access to the digital HD data - they control the system and the DVR. The signal coming from the satellite is digital, it is recorded right to the drive as-is. That’s exactly how the Series3 and TiVo HD record digital cable too. And how the old DirecTiVo, including the HD DirecTiVo, recorded DirecTV satellite - before DirecTV stopped allowing TiVo to build them. If TiVo had access to the satellite data they could easily do it - but they are not allowed that access.
As for the TV - there is a HUGE, HUGE difference between displaying the data and recording it. The data flowing into the TV over component video or HDMI is not a highly compressed stream, especially not component which is analog. There is a world of difference between simply displaying that data on the screen and being able to compress it into a digital file for storage on a drive. A 1920×1080 image has 6.75 *times* the image data as a 640×480 image - double that if it is 1080p vs 480i. That’s a fire hose vs. a garden hose.
DVRs have to compress the image in real-time. Hardware capable of capturing HD and compressing it in real-time is very expensive, more than the cost of the entire TiVo HD, even the Series3. Maybe you can trim some costs by not compressing it as much - but then you get maybe 5 hours on a 160GB drive instead of 20 hours. It just isn’t economical to make hardware that does it today. Commercial encoding hardware that can do it costs thousands of dollars. You need much more capable encoders and a lot more memory.
There have been consumer devices that could record component HD in real time - W-VHS. This was a proprietary JVC system that recorded each of the three component channels individually on special VHS-style tapes. It illustrates how difficult this is.
Look around - try to find any DVR, or other recording system, that can record an HD signal from an external source like a cable box or satellite receiver. Then make sure it is really HD, and it doesn’t mention down-sampling HD input to SD before recording/encoding.
It has nothing to do with sour grapes on TiVo’s part - or do you think the *entire consumer electronics industry* has a grudge against satellite and therefore won’t make recorders? Or that all of the vendors that used to make tuners and recorders for DirecTV and Dish Network stopped at the same time because they felt like it? No, both Dish Network and DirecTV decided to bring everything ‘in house’ and they pulled the licenses for 3rd party units. That’s why they all vanished a few years back. Both of the DBS providers have become very closed and protective of their networks, branding everything under their own brands and disallowing 3rd party vendors to connect.
If you know the technologies involved, it isn’t hard to understand. There are solid technical and economic reasons why you don’t see products like this on the market.
July 24th, 2007 at 22:05
Tivo got into a pissing contest with the satellite providers, lost, and ended up with Tivo walking away and forced to write off revenue from Tivo users who want satelite HD and will be forced to drop Tivo.
Sitting down and negotiating a deal with the two satellite companies would be the smart thing to do, from a business perspective, and might keep Tivo in business, and perhaps even let them make a profit one of these days. Tivo management seems to be too arrogant to negotiate.
July 24th, 2007 at 22:21
Wow… that is so utterly and completely incorrect that I’m stunned.
That is absolutely NOT what happened in this reality.
1. DirecTV. TiVo and DirecTV were long time partners - and technically still are. DirecTV and TiVo extended their agreement to continue to support existing DirecTV customers. However, DirecTV dropped TiVo as their DVR supplier and no longer sells new DirecTiVos. Why? Because News Corp/Rupert Murdoch purchased a controlling interest in DirecTV a few years back. News Corp also just happened to own NDS, another DVR technology provider, which builds the Skybox for News Corps satellite system, BSkyB, in the UK. Instead of continuing to pay TiVo for the technology, Murdoch decided to bring it ‘in house’ and give the business to NDS. Now DTV pays NDS - but the money stays inside the News Corp umbrella. Hardly shocking, and fairly typical of Murdoch’s style.
TiVo did negotiate to remain a provider to DirecTV, but they were shut out by News Corp. It is hard for TiVo to compete with an in-house vendor. And DirecTV would never enable the more advanced features of their DirecTiVo units (NO networking features), even though the hardware and software were there. So TiVo couldn’t compete on features since they didn’t control the units - DirecTV did. There is a ray of hope - Liberty Media is acquiring News Corp’s share of DirecTV, and in fact may acquire the entire company. Liberty is a major corporate investor in TiVo, so there is a chance they’ll bring TiVo back as a DVR supplier.
2. Dish Network. Way back in the early days TiVo approached Dish Network to propose developing a DVR for their system. TiVo negotiated in good faith with Dish Network and even gave them a prototype to test. In the end Dish Network turned TiVo down, and a short time later they came out with an ‘in-house’ DVR.
The rest is a matter of public records. A jury determined that Echostar *willfully* violated TiVo’s patents in the development of their DVR systems. That they were aware of the technology due to their aborted negotiations with TiVo, and the prototype was never returned to TiVo. TiVo made repeated attempts to negotiate a licensing deal with Dish before going to court, and Dish refused to license TiVo’s technology or give them access to their network.
TiVo won the case and Dish was ordered to disable their DVRs in the field - that order was given a stay pending appeal. TiVo and Dish are heading back into court for the appeal, and if TiVo carries the appeal they’ll receive upwards of $100 million from Dish in settlement, and it is likely that Dish will be forced to license TiVo’s patents. That could mean licensing the TiVo software in its entirety, or simply licensing the patent rights for use in the own in-house DVRs.
I don’t know where you got the crazy idea that TiVo is ‘too arrogant to negotiate’, as it is open knowledge that TiVo has made several attempts to negotiate with both satellite providers. And did so in good faith. The court records from the Dish case make that clear, and both TiVo and DirecTV are open about their dealings and it is a matter of public record in the SEC filings for both companies.
The satellite companies have closed their doors to all comers, and TiVo can’t force them to use their software - just license their patents if it comes to it. (The DirecTV agreement covers the patent use in the NDS systems.) There is no point in TiVo banging on locked doors - the deals with Comcast and Cox, as well as the international deals in Mexico and Australia, hold much more promise than the satellite vendors at this time.
July 24th, 2007 at 23:57
megazone, thanks for your awesome, detailed, thoughtful review. I’m glad I took the time to read it even though I thought I’d caught most of what I needed to know about the new box!
Very pleased to hear there’s a theoretical future AV input path, though for the reasons you state here, I doubt there’ll be HD satellite input for a long time. Perhaps a combo box that can do OTA/cable HD and satellite SD would sell well. *shrug*
I, too, wish TiVo and DISH could come to some agreement in the near future that would bring me a DISH TiVo HD unit, but I’m not holding my breath. The lunatic activist judge who ordered DISH to stop providing me with the distant network affiliates I was entirely eligible to receive has made DISH much less of a clear winner vs Time Warner, and the TiVo HD is starting to make a move back to cable look awfully attractive.
July 25th, 2007 at 01:57
Blueridge,
One more thing from the Tivo financial reports that megazone forgot to mention: Tivo received less than $1 per customer per month from the $5 that DirecTv got for the Tivo unit. One of the partners was arrogant, and greedy, and killed the deal. I’ll give you a hint, it wasn’t the starving compnay that didn’t want to lose its main source of customers.
July 25th, 2007 at 10:54
The Comcast deal and the Tivo HD should be a good litmus test for how much consumers really value the Tivo experience. I gave my DirecTivo receivers to my parents when I bought my first HDTV. I hated to give them up, but they didn’t do HD. That was 4 years ago. Since then I’ve used a DirecTV HD receiver, Dish HD DVR, Windows MCE HTPC, and I’m currently using a MythTV system. Yesterday was the first time in 4 years that I’ve seriously considered switching back to Tivo. I’m still on the fence. I am a Tivo share holder, and the next 6 months should be interesting.
July 25th, 2007 at 15:01
Thanks for the informative review. One thing that prior versions of Tivo boxes have had trouble with is relatively high power consumption when on standby. Such consumption can add up to lots of energy use when adding up all the electronic boxes and power bricks around the house. WOuld it be possible for you to get a watt meter and monitor the energy usage of the Tivo HD over a few days of use to get an idea of the expected the energy usage in killowatt-hours per day?
July 25th, 2007 at 17:33
Any new offers in the works for Series 2 owners with lifetime subscriptions to transfer the subscription (at some cost) to the new HD unit. They had such a program for the original Series 3 machines. The FAQ speaks only to the prepaid and monthly subscriptions.
July 26th, 2007 at 13:34
I will buy a TiVo Series 3 lite if TiVo has it so you can take your life time from one unit and do it to the series 3 lite. The just did this with a DT TiVo for $300 I got one of them and have a old series 1 still with lift time that would be super to upgrade it to a TiVo Series 3 lite.
I can record HD TV on my computer with Beyond TV. Using a ATI card. It does it good. But can’t use a cable card. But over the air I can get about 12 HD channels. I herd they will quit over the air some time so you have to use a card to decrypted it. So this will not last. I guess that’s the cable card. So I guess they will stop over the air HD some time.
-Raymond Day
July 26th, 2007 at 19:20
A bit of comment catch-up…
AML - Actually TiVo sees just over $1 a month for each DirecTiVo subscriber - it fluctuations, I think the last quarterly report had it around $1.11. But, to be fair, that’s not the only money TiVo got from the deal. DirecTV also paid separate engineering fees for TiVo’s work customizing the software for the DirecTV system and developing the DirecTiVo units themselves. But that’s all the more reason DirecTV took it ‘in-house’ with NDS.
Mark - Sorry, I don’t own a Kill A Watt, or anything like it. I suppose I should pick one up for the future. I just killed my disposable income buying a PlayStation3 bundle, so I’ll have to pay that off before I spend too much more.
kd & Raymond - TiVo tells me they have no current plans for lifetime transfer offers on the TiVo HD. But who knows what the future will bring.
Raymond - Actually it is *analog* OTA that is going away in 2009. Broadcast will convert to all digital in 2009 - SD or HD. So you shouldn’t have any problems continuing to record HD from antenna. (The TiVo HD can do that too.)
July 26th, 2007 at 21:02
$1.11 it is, then. Certainly not the thing profits are made of. Tivo swallowed that deal when the were young and unproven, but DirecTv was certainly not offering them anything except customer numbers to bolster their credibility. And perhaps enough scraps to pay for some of their staff as long as they were actively developing. From their own customers they make, what, $8 a month? DirecTv wouldn’t offer them anything like that, even before NDS. I am not saying they should have, Tivo has yet to prove their service is worth the full premium it takes to build and support. It is certainly worth a premium, but a lot of people balk at the full amount. They want Tivo to be a hardware-only product, like a VCR. Turns out the software is the trick, but when you add the $300 for software onto the $300 for hardware it is nearly the cost of a low end PC. With nearly the same breakdown of hardware and software. Given how much TV people watch, I would think they’d go for it, but for some reason the perception of value isnt’ there. Sorry to ramble.
July 27th, 2007 at 02:17
From what I recall, the DirecTV agreement pays Tivo based on the number of units in active service. The more units in service, the less DirecTV pays per unit. The fewer units in service, the more DirecTV pays per unit (capped at around $1.25/mo per unit).
If you think $1.11 is low…The deal negotiated with Comcast pays Tivo about $0.40 per customer that adds to the Tivo service (to the Motorola DVR) for $3-4/mo. Of course, Comcast did pay the cost to port the software and make the changes they wanted (millions of dollars).
July 28th, 2007 at 18:49
Something from the longer version of the review, in the section regarding SATA ports:
How about a 2GB TiVo without an external drive?
Actually, I would very quickly become bored with that. B-) I know what you meant of course, but thought I might point the typo out to you.
July 28th, 2007 at 20:36
Oops - GB, TB, same thing.
I’ll fix that, thanks.
July 29th, 2007 at 18:13
I just picked mine up at CircuitCity. It’s my first Tivo, and the Comcast tech is bringing the CableCards this Friday (5 days from now). I have Comcast Digital Cable, and Comcast’s Motorola DVR was driving me so crazy with constant crashes and freezes that I decided to just go Tivo instead.
My only real complaint so far is the speed. Like I said, it’s my first Tivo, but I’m a little sad at how long it takes for some menus to popup or even to change the channels. I’d say the Motorola probably performs a little better WHEN IT WAS WORKING RIGHT. However, one of my problems with the Motorola is the crashes and freezes, so that negates it’s sometimes-better performance.
I’ll know more when I get the CableCards in. Hopefully everything goes well. All in all I’m happy with the unit.
July 29th, 2007 at 18:15
NOTE:
CircuitCity currently has the 3 series on sale!!! They’re $599!!!
I was considering getting one, but the Tivo HD comes with the ability to use the multi-stream cards, which I saw as a plus, and I already had an HDMI cable lying around. So for the price of the 3 series, I could afford a Tivo HD and 3-year subscription. But at $599, the 3 series definately looked tempting.
July 30th, 2007 at 05:07
Some of the slowdown will clear up once the unit is fully set up. When first installed the unit downloads the next two week’s of guide data and it has to process it and that can take a day or so. Doing that in the background consumes some of the system resources, slowing it down over all.
There are some activities that can take a while, like re-ordering the Season Passes. Most things don’t take as long. The HD doesn’t seem to be as speedy as the original Series3, but some of that could be the software. S3 performance improved going from 8.1.x to the 8.3.1 software and the HD is currently running a branch of 8.1 - 8.1.7. Down the road the software branches will merge again and the HD will probably see another performance boost.
$599 is a decent deal on the S3, but I don’t think the S3 really offers $300 worth of improvements over the TiVo HD.
July 31st, 2007 at 14:45
Can you use it as an HD cablebox without paying for the TIVO subscription? Thanks!
July 31st, 2007 at 15:15
No, you cannot.
The box is sold at a loss / break even. Tivo makes the money on the subscription.
July 31st, 2007 at 15:54
Any chance us holders of a lifetime Series2 membership will be able to transfer our service to the new box?
July 31st, 2007 at 17:50
unknown - As bfdtv said, no. It is a doorstop without a subscription.
Snert - At this time TiVo says they have no plans to offer lifetime transfers to the TiVo HD. (Except for the special grandfathered S1 boxes - but that’s always a special case.) That may change in the future if they offer a promotion, etc. In the meantime, the lifetime S2 box would make a TiVo HD eligible for the MSD discount.
July 31st, 2007 at 23:05
From TivoCommunity:
Tivo Series3 has a BCM7038 CPU with 128Mb, plus a BCM7411 MPEG-4 decoder with another 128Mb. The BCM7411 and its 128Mb is currently unused. Of the 128Mb on the BCM7038, 64Mb is reserved for the MPEG-2 decoder, ~19Mb is reserved for other hardware, and ~42Mb is available to the Linux kernel.
The TivoHD has a BCM7401 CPU with 256Mb. Of that 256Mb, ~130Mb is reserved for the MPEG decoders and other hardware, and ~126MB is available to the Linux kernel.
The OS on the TivoHD has access to 3x as much memory as the Series3. Upon bootup, the Linux OS and software on the TivoHD is using ~60Mb RAM (of which 33Mb is cache), or ~18Mb more than than the Tivo Series3 has available.
August 11th, 2007 at 13:41
I have read that the Tivo HD is sluggish, how would you compare it to you S3? Is it so slow as to drive you crazy?
August 11th, 2007 at 13:43
Last week I seen a $300 TiVo S3 in Best Buy store. They have them out all ready. Just got to wait till they have some way of getting life time sub on them.
-Raymond Day
August 11th, 2007 at 14:36
> I have read that the Tivo HD is sluggish, how would you compare it to you S3?
> Is it so slow as to drive you crazy?
The TivoHD uses the older 8.1.x branch of the Tivo software. It doesn’t have the performance improvements (i.e. faster menus and guide) of the 8.3.x software used on the Tivo Series3.
The TivoHD should get a nice speed boost in a few months when Tivo upgrades it from 8.1.x to 8.3.x (or later).
August 11th, 2007 at 15:05
While I do plan to get full HD service in the near future (as soon as I sell my house and move), I don’t currently have it. My HDTV can receive OTA HD channels, using the “dashed” channel numbers like 102-2, 103-1, etc.
Can I use the Tivo HD now, or do I have to wait until I have full HD service?
August 12th, 2007 at 03:08
love hd - I think the performance of the TiVo HD is pretty good. Not as responsive as the original S3, but still pretty good. And as bfdtv said, performance may improve as the code bases are merged.
Bob - Yes, you can use it now. The TiVo HD supports analog and digital cable, as well as analog (NTSC) and digital (ATSC) antenna. So you can use it for OTA HD and don’t need a full HD cable service.
August 12th, 2007 at 04:39
I am looking for a “A TiVo steal-of-a-deal for Product Lifetime!” for the S3 lite. I still have a old S1 with Lifetime. I got a e-mail to take the Lifetime from a old TiVo to a new DT TiVo on 6/28/2007 and I did this and now have a are first S1 with no sub. on it.
Here is there ad I got in the e-mail.
I hope they do this again for the Series 3 lite!
-Raymond Day
August 12th, 2007 at 05:04
Raymond - actually it is there in all your posts, the markup was broken - the first time you didn’t put anything ‘in’ the link, just open and close ‘a’ tags, so it doesn’t show up. The second time you just had an open ‘a’ tag with everything - but no contents or closing tag. I’ll edit your post to make the first link work and delete the others.
September 8th, 2007 at 20:56
Hello everyone,
Please let me tell our story.
When we got our HDTV, we naturally had to give the old series2 Tivo box the boot. Before that, we adored Tivo and after getting the Motorola HD-DVR, we soon grew to miss Tivo greatly. I *do* like being able to record dual HD channels simultaneously.
When I first learned of the series 3 we were elated, but found the once $800 price tag to be crushing.
Now there is Tivo HD, hope is reborn! But first a few questions:
If I can get either 2 type s cable cards from comcast or one type m (if supported by them), can the Tivo HD record *2* cable HD channels simultaneously?
I am also curious if the Tivo HD and comcast digital cable service get along. Does On Demand work?
Any insights your readers can provide is greatly appreciated.
Thank you.
-Harold
September 8th, 2007 at 22:04
Harold,
>> If I can get either 2 type s cable cards from comcast or one
>> type m (if supported by them), can the Tivo HD record *2* cable
>> HD channels simultaneously?
Yes, you can simultaneously record two different HD cable channels while you watch a third, previously recorded program. The TivoHD records the original digital signal so all recordings are 100% original to the live broadcast.
>> I am also curious if the Tivo HD and comcast digital cable service
>> get along. Does On Demand work?
The TivoHD works with Comcast digital cable, but On Demand does not work. There is no way to Tivo to support On Demand. Of course, with a larger hard drive, the TivoHD can become what is effectively an On Demand box.
My TivoHD has over 100 hours of HD storage.
September 9th, 2007 at 17:43
Short version of our story is that we got a new Samsung HD DLP and were going to give up our Tivo to get an all-in-one HD DVR from our cable company. Due to the Charter being full of ’stellar’ employees, we luckily had enough time to research and find out that what they were giving us was awful and that tivo hd was now availabe for $299.
My question now is…
…does the cable company HAVE TO install the cable cards?
I’ve already spent WAY too much time on the phone with them and waiting for them to come out and NOT bring what I ordered to spend another Saturday waiting for the cable guy. Charter is saying they have to, because it’s their policy. I was hung up on by a supervisor. I’m going to the office tomorrow to have a give them their crusty old box and have a ‘discussion’ with them. Is there any reason they shouldn’t be able to hand me two cable cards and be happy to be rid of me?
September 9th, 2007 at 17:45
sorry for stuttering in there
September 9th, 2007 at 17:48
Yes, they are required by law to install CableCards.
September 9th, 2007 at 18:31
I think M was asking if they have to install them, not if they have to provide them in general.
M - Technically there is no reason they can’t hand you the cards and allow you to self-install them and call in the information. Some cable MSOs do that. However, Charter will not do that - they don’t even keep cards at the local offices to give out. The only way to get cards is for an installer to come out and deliver them. I’ve tried a few times. The best I can do is get my cards re-paired when I need to - and only because I was persistent and I brought my info to the local office and ended up making a contact there who will help me. But when I need new cards I still have to get a truck roll.
September 9th, 2007 at 19:48
Thanks!
Not the combination of answers I was hoping for. No, they don’t really have to install them for you, but yes, they will make you make them install them. :\
September 18th, 2007 at 17:45
What is the actual part # of the tivo HD?
September 18th, 2007 at 18:00
TCD652160
September 19th, 2007 at 18:43
I’m incredibly embarrassed, but I hope this will help someone down the road.
The happy ending is that our tivo HD is now working with it’s multistream card and we’re getting all our channels. The ugly middle was that all we could get for days was unencrypted channels and unknowledgeable, unhelpful people at Charter. Finally had a lead tech come out…
…he unplugged our tivo and plugged it back in and it works beautifully.
I. can. not. believe. I didn’t try that.
September 27th, 2007 at 10:37
Just want to finally and fully confirm something prior to buying a TiVo HD:
Brief background=NO cable in our area, understand satellite not supported, therefore HD OTA only interest.
Question: If I have no cable, hence no cable cards; will the TiVo HD record OTA HD? Also, with no cable cards, will TiVo HD record 2 OTA HD programs at the same time?
Thanks.
September 27th, 2007 at 11:58
You don’t need cable or cable cards to record OTA HD. So yes, the TivoHD will allow you to record
2 OTA HD shows at once without having cable.
September 27th, 2007 at 13:20
Nate - What Chris said.
CableCARDs are *only* needed for digital cable. They don’t matter at all for OTA or analog cable use. With no cards you can certainly record two OTA HD channels simultaneously.
September 27th, 2007 at 16:11
Thanks so much for that confirmation!
One last question: is the TiVoHD ‘required’ to be plugged into a phone line? If so, why?
Thanks again.
September 27th, 2007 at 17:06
It must be connected to a phone line *or* a network connection. The TiVo needs to contact the mothership for a few things - like checking subscription status to authorize the service, and downloading all of the channel guide data. The network is the best option, it also enables features that just don’t work over a phone line.
October 16th, 2007 at 16:29
Today I order a “180-hour TiVo HD DVD- Product Lifetime Transfer Offer” Because at I put my TiVo series 1 with Lifetime in that link and it said I can do it and went to the order page.
I am looking forword to getting this. I called Comcast. They don’t have a M card so have to have 2 and the 2nd one will cost $1.50 a month more. I guess if they had the M cable card would not have to pay the $1.50 more. Said it will cost for them to come out too. They have to install it. I guess because they have to read the cable card number back to them.
-Raymond Day
October 23rd, 2007 at 11:56
I did get the TiVo. They said it my take 3 months to show the right info. on the TiVo’s I did Lifetime to and from.
The link I wanted to do was http://www.tivo.com/hdservicetransfer/ so it’s a good thing I waited for like a “A TiVo steal-of-a-deal for Product Lifetime!†I am very happy have Lifetime on a TiVo HD.
-Raymond Day
October 25th, 2007 at 15:44
megazone (or any other tivolover),
I am deciding between the S3 and the HD.
Questions:
1. At this point the price is almost equal with rebates. I can get the S3 from Amazon for $349.99 OR the HD for $253.88. Is it worth the extra $100 for the bigger harddrive? Meaning, other than harddrive space, is there any reason to get the S3 that is not trivial like the OLEDs/THX logo/Remote (I use my own remote)? So, technically, is it superior or anything?
2. WiFI or Wired ethernet to the machine. Will I see any advantage having a wired connection?
3. Should I spend the $199 now on the eSata HD from WD? Or wait for a larger device. I figure I wont fill the original harddrive right away, so I can wait…thoughts? Can I use the WD 1TB RAID MY Book drive? or the 750GB My Book?
4. I will be using Comcast, does it matter if I get 2 M-Cards or 2 S-Cards? Does this factor into my decision of model (S3 or HD)?
5. Last question: I currently have Directivo, with the HD tivo machine - HR10-250. Is the ANY reason anyone would tell me to keep it and NOT switch to a new machine and a cable connection??? One of my main issues is Directv will not allow me to get local HD channels here in Seattle using this machine.
Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions.
JC
October 25th, 2007 at 20:50
JC,
Personally I lean toward the S3 with the prices being so close, but some of the factors that sway may don’t apply for you.
In the S3’s favor:
- Larger drive (250GB vs 160GB)
- Nicer remote ($50 value)
- Nicer chassis with OLED display and on-box controls (HD has no on-box controls and just LEDs)
- THX certification
- Supports any eSATA drive, not just ‘TiVo Verified’ drives
In the HD’s favor:
- Supports M-Card CableCARDs, not just S-Cards
- Cheaper
Technologically, the HD may have an edge on the S3 as it uses a newer generation of chips. For example, instead of one SoC with the MPEG-2 decoder and a separate chip for MPEG-4/VC-1, the HD has one SoC with all the decoders integrated. But it remains to be seen if that creates any functional differences down the road or not. They seem to be fairly equally capable, feature-wise, just implemented with different generations of HW. The main advantage of the HD may be a reduced component count and cheaper unit costs and not anything functional.
I always recommend wired Ethernet when possible. Wired is almost always going to give better performance. And it is not susceptible to interference, congestion, etc. And it is just easier to work with - no WPA keys, etc. But WiFi is more convenient if running a cable is a problem, and performance with the TiVo adapter (and use ONLY the TiVo adapter) is good, so it isn’t a major problem. So what it comes down to is asking yourself how hard it will be to run Cat5, and if it is too much effort then use WiFi.
As for the eSATA drive - I’d wait. See if you really need the space first. And if you do, by the time you buy a drive then larger and/or cheaper options may be available. Keep in mind that the TiVo HD is ‘locked down’ and only works with the My DVR Expander ‘TiVo Verified’ drive - unless you open it up and use the manual ‘marrying’ procedures with another drive. While the S3 works with pretty much any eSATA drive - though you’ll want to get one suitable for DVR use. You could use the My Book drives on the S3 - but not the HD (without the hacks).
If you get a Series3 then you will need two CableCARDs. Either two S-Cards or two M-Cards (or one of each, whatever). The S3 doesn’t support M-Cards, so they fall-back to working as S-Cards in the S3. The TiVo HD does support M-Cards, so you’d need *one* M-Card, or two S-Cards in the HD. That’s the one real advantage to the HD. The S3 may support M-Cards at some point. TiVo planned to, but I think they have had issues getting code to handle M-Cards from their chipset vendor for the S3. They switched chips in the HD to one known to have code available to support M-Cards.
No reason I can think of to stick with DirecTV - but I’ve never been a fan of them anyway, and never used them myself.
October 26th, 2007 at 02:52
Wow, GREAT answers, especially on the reason to go with WiFi or not. I have decided on the Tivo HD. The choice all came down to harddrive space, and the extra space for $100 at the time of purchase (one hour ago) did not make it worth it. I figure the HD will have more than one option available in the near future for expansion.
Thanks again for taking the time to answer, and answering so quickly! Great site, and I did click on your amazon link!
October 26th, 2007 at 03:36
You’re welcome - and thank you for purchasing through my link.
November 8th, 2007 at 13:49
I may have missed this somewhere, but I have a question about Tivo related to simultaneously broadcasting HD and SD.
I am looking for a solution to use a common time synced HD and SD signal to allow me to use the HD on our Mitsubishi HD screen, while also running an S-Video to other destinations (a projector in the bar, 2 other TVs, etc.). As it is currently, it’s very hit or miss on the timing… the HD signal is often behind time (as much as 6-7 seconds) since I’m using 2 separate sources. When we have football parties, and there’s a big play, the group of people in the bar scream and cheer; this let’s everyone watching HD know what happened early. Bummer. It would also be nice to use pause, replay, etc. on all screens at once.
I really have 2 questions:
1) Can I do this with the Tivo HD units alone?
2) Can you help me identify other equipment that can accomplish this?
3) Can I [cheaply] use an adjustable delay on the SD?
Thanks in advance for any help.
Hans
March 18th, 2008 at 22:21
Well, I’vd had my HD for a few months now and I can’t be happier. My only problem is the hard drive. I get very scared with only 20 hours of HD space, I keep my “Now Playing” as clean as I can and use my Series 2 for non-HD and less important HD stuff. The DVR Expander is great and I can’t wait to get one, then I’ll have no problems. TiVo is Great!