TiVo shows Series3 HDTV Cable Card unit at CES
ATTN: The original image links are getting swamped - so if you have trouble, there are a number of full and partial mirrors listed here. And I’m open to anyone else mirroring.
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Sorry for the delay, I got a later start today than I’d hoped, my bad. I went straight to TiVo’s booth and I’ve been here for a while now, looking around and taking photos. I got a personal tour from TiVoPony of all the new stuff, most of which I can share. 
Through the marvel of unsecured WiFi I’m coming to you from their booth. The biggest thing they have on display is the Series3 box. The Series3 is the CableCARD HDTV unit, which is due out in mid-to-late 2006. And let me tell you, it is a *SHARP* looking box! Very sleek design, very nice. I have photos, I’ll get them up ASAP, but I didn’t want to wait to post.
The unit has two CableCARD slots on the back and it will support Multi-Stream or Single-Stream cards. If you have multi-stream then you only need one card, but as long as only single stream cards are available you can use two of them. Yes, the unit is dual-tuner - actually, like the HD DirecTiVo it can use any two of the tuners it has, and it has six. 2 cable tuners, 2 ATSC tuners, and 2 NTSC tuners. Yes, it supports digital and analog cable, digital ATSC OTA, and analog NTSC OTA.
The only inputs the unit has are a coax cable in and a coax antenna in. There are no RCA or S-Video inputs on this unit. For output it has HDMI, Component Video, S-Video, and Composite Video. It has optical digital audio out, as well as RCA stereo out. Like the Series2 units it has 2 USB ports, and it also has a 10/100baseT Ethernet jack built-in. The unit also still has the modem, which seems increasingly archaic. Oh, yeah, I almost forgot - it also has an external SATA port. 
The unit has front panel controls clustered on the right, and a nice display in the middle with a very cool feature - it displays the title of the show(s) tuned at the time, so you always know what it is recording at a glance. There is also an output indicator that indicates if the unit is outputting in 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i - and it can be set to any of those. It can also be set to pass-through, so it will send the shows to the TV in whatever format they were received.
The remote ls also sleeker - a slick update of the Series2 peanut with minor changes for HDTV (such as an aspect button). But the big change is that the remote is backlit! It is also weighted and has a ridged pattern on the back towards the base, so there is VERY distinct tactile feedback as to having the remote the right way around in your hand. So those who dislike the peanut because of the ambiguity should be happy.
The box unit still encodes analog content as MPEG2, like the current units, but it supports playback of advanced codecs such as MPEG4 AVC/H.264. This will open up the possibilities of broadband content using more efficient codecs, including HD downloads.
The photos are currently uploading to http://www.gizmolovers.com/Photos/CES2006/ - I’ll fix the permissions as soon as they’re all up so you can see them. Warning, they’re HUGE since they’re 5 mega pixels, I don’t have time to make thumbnails at the moment. I’ll do that later - I noticed some of them are a bit blurry, I’ll take some more and upload those as well.
Oh, and remember that SATA port? TiVo will also be selling an external SATA drive for easy storage expansion, and they have that on display here too.
I have more, I’ll post it in a moment.
EDIT: To clarify, it supports analog cable, even any digital cable channels sent in the clear, without CableCARD. You only need CableCARD for any protected digital channels, to handle the descryption. And since all digital cable systems in the US *must* support CableCARD - it is an FCC mandate - then it should work with all cable systems, analog or digital.
I also got a bit more info, the chipset used in the Series2 supports VC-1 (aka WMV9) and MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, along with MPEG-2, so it has all the same codecs as HD-DVD or Blu-ray. When I asked if it was using a Broadcomm chip I was told that would be a good guess.
There is also another URL for the photos: http://www.gizmolovers.com.nyud.net/Photos/CES2006/ - and if anyone else wants to mirror them, please feel free - just give me some credit. If you want to repost them in your own blog, site, etc - please COPY them to your server, don’t kill mine.
As for price - nothing has been announced yet, that’s still To Be Determined.
I have more photos which I’ll be uploading shortly.
EDIT 2: Oh, one other tech detail I forgot. The S3 is still using IDE drives internally, only the external drive is SATA. Also, the external drive is not removable in the conventional sense. Once it is connected, the OS makes it part of the file system and shows may be recorded using both the internal and external drive - as in the SAME show may have its bits scattered on both. If you disconnect the external drive the unit will cope with it, but any shows recorded with any data on the external drive will vanish. So it isn’t something you connect, record to, then take to another unit to watch the shows.
As for CPU, RAM, etc. I don’t have that info yet, but I’ll ask.
Anything else?
EDIT 3: See this entry for more info on the photos - more uploads and mirrors. Also, to permalink to this post, use this as the best direct link.
EDIT 4: Greetings Slashdotters.
EDIT 5: To clarify, the Series3 WILL NOT support CableCARD 2.0. It is strictly a unidirectional device. It will support CableCARD 1.0 and MultiStream, but NOT 2.0/bidirectional. The earlier content that suggested it would was the result of a miscommunication.
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ATTN: The original image links are getting swamped - so if you have trouble, there are a number of full and partial mirrors listed here. And I’m open to anyone else mirroring.
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January 5th, 2006 at 18:37
My HD TiVo lust just got worse! You bastard! Steal one!
January 5th, 2006 at 18:50
Great post. Thanks for the update!
January 5th, 2006 at 19:25
Too bad it won’t support satellite or non cablecard cable systems. Otherwise impressive.
January 5th, 2006 at 19:26
I cannot get the pictures to load.
January 5th, 2006 at 19:27
Try the coralized version of the link:
http://www.gizmolovers.com.nyud.net/Photos/CES2006/
If enough people use it, it should cache everything and let the load off MZ’s server.
January 5th, 2006 at 19:39
You had the scoop, man! Great job!
January 5th, 2006 at 20:06
I guess I wasn’t clear - it supports analog cable, even any digital cable channels sent in the clear, without CableCARD. You only need CableCARD for any protected digital channels, to handle the descryption. And since all digital cable systems in the US *must* support CableCARD - it is an FCC mandate - then it should work with all cable systems, analog or digital.
January 5th, 2006 at 20:06
Is that a disk usage indicator to the right of the show title?
January 5th, 2006 at 20:13
Nope, that’s the aspect indicatior:
480i
480p
720p
1080i
January 5th, 2006 at 20:18
Awesome post.
Thanks for taking the time to type up everything, and include the photos too. I know what is at the top of my list for Christmas 2006!
January 5th, 2006 at 20:30
Thanks for posting the pics and a wonderful summary! I can’t wait!
Alex
http://www.tivoblog.com
January 5th, 2006 at 20:31
Thanks for writing this up. I can’t wait!
January 5th, 2006 at 20:32
You were clear. No svideo or composite inputs, means no external black box tuners. Up here in Canada Cablecard is still an unknown. And you can’t use it with satellite systems either.
January 5th, 2006 at 21:08
This may be the TiVo that gets me to ditch DirecTV. Not that I’ve had any complaints with the DirecTV service directly, but turning their back on TiVo in favor of their own crappy DVR means people like me get left behind on all these snazzy new features like TiVoToGo, HME, and all that fun stuff. (Not that I’d get them anyway, given that I’m still using S1.)
I wonder if I’ll need to make any MFS Tools changes to support S3.
January 5th, 2006 at 21:12
Would you already know, or could you ask them, if they have tested this unit in any of the areas where DirecTV has started delivering their new satellite services?
Thanks.
January 5th, 2006 at 21:21
It looks interesting. Now I know that when I get a flatpanel TV these will be around. Question is, will it be worth bothering immediately or not? Maybe not, unless there is a visible difference with HD devices and Charter’s cable services in St. Louis.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:08
OK, how do you have two tuners if you only have one cable coax input? Do you use the antenna input as well with a splitter, or does it actually split the signal after it comes into the cable coax input?
Can you tell I don’t have the dual tuner DirecTivo?
January 5th, 2006 at 22:20
The new box doesn’t work with satellite at all, so I’m not sure what you’re asking.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:21
Unlike DirecTV, which needs two connections from the dish to the box, cable and antenna signals are all-in-one, so it splits them internally.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:22
Do your cable boxes not have Coax output?
January 5th, 2006 at 22:23
He’s right - the new box doesn’t support IR blasters or serial. It is not designed to be used with any external tuner, cable or satellite.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:29
I forgot about coax, pretty low quality option, but ya, no IR blaster or serial either.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:32
These are some great features, however if Tivo wants to get some serious cheers, they MUST be sure the RJ-45 port is operable AND a Gigabit one!!! This would facilitate the necessary bandwidth for these larger HD files and allow home networking enthusiasts to further leverage the benefits of TivoToGo across their Gigabit networks
Therefore, if you are having additional conversation with them, please be sure they understand the importance as this additional small change as it is sorely needed.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:36
It came up in conversation already actually, but 100baseT should be fast enough even for HD file transfers. Keep in mind that to really use a GigE port the entire unit would have to be beefy enough - not only the Ethernet port and chipset, but the system bus, CPU, etc, all need to be powerful enough to sustain high speed traffic - AND handle the other system tasks like recording. So it impacts the entire system.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:44
Good points and if they can stomach the other changes, it would be yet another feather in their hat to include Gigabit functionality!! Also, has the Tivo “Contingent” considered plumbing the Series3 units to support IPTV as that is being rapidly deployed by some of the Telcos through their Fiber Deployments???
January 5th, 2006 at 22:52
wow. that would limit their usefulness then… I’m not sure how I feel about that… Perhaps they will still make/sell series 2 boxes for areas that don’t support cable card.
January 5th, 2006 at 22:59
I know broadband content is a big deal with this box, but nothing was said about IPTV in particular. I’ll ask tomorrow.
January 5th, 2006 at 23:02
Keep in mind TiVo only officially sells units in the US - and the entire US requires CableCARD for digital cable. So there are no areas without it. If you don’t have CableCARD, you don’t have digital cable - and if you have analog cable or antenna, this box has you covered.
Now, if/when they official launch product into Canada, they may need to do something different for digital cable.
But the Series2 boxes aren’t going away when this comes out, this is a higher end product and the Series2 will remain as a lower cost unit. They may get a refresh, but TiVo wouldn’t say anything concrete.
January 5th, 2006 at 23:24
Two questions for tomorrow if you have time:
a) Does it still require a landline to activate the unit, or can it be activated directly through the network (i.e., can those of us with just cellphones use the Series 3)?
b) Does it record in MPEG-2 still, or MPEG-4/H.264?
Thanks!
January 5th, 2006 at 23:28
a) Even Series2 units no longer need a landline. 7.2 introduced network Guided Setup out of the box, and this unit would be the same way.
b) Actually I answered this in my original post.
NTSC antenna or analog cable will be encoded as MPEG-2, as with current TiVos. ATSC or digital cable will be saved as-is, in whatever format it is transmitted in - which today is MPEG-2 for both, though we may see MPEG-4 on digital cable at some point. Broadband content is more likely to use MPEG-4.
January 6th, 2006 at 00:03
Will the CC 2.0 cards this box accepts allow for PPV and VoD, or is it just for multistreaming? (not complaining, just wondering)
January 6th, 2006 at 00:04
Any word on whether the Series3 will have a PIP feature now that it will have dual tuners? I noticed when looking at your remote pictures that the Window button on the Series2 has been replaced by the Aspect button.
January 6th, 2006 at 00:05
I can ask for a clarification on this tomorrow. But the impression I got today was that it is just for multi-stream support at this time, but supporting CC2.0 would mean handling bidirectional communication, so it would probably be software for VOD/PPV/etc.
I’ll make a note to ask specifically.
January 6th, 2006 at 00:45
One more thing
Given that all TiVOs have USB port, did they think about cable box control via USB? 
Of course once the Echo generation of boxes is out and about it’s not actual but still… all Scientific Atlanta boxes support “USB Keyboard” mode. That is, if you connect to cable box the keyboard and tap key up, channel changes. Same for down and numeric keys. Beats IR interface any day and shouldn’t really be that hard to implement.
Also, it would allow using external box for cases when “extra super premium” service is not cable card compatible
Thanks for the pictures!
January 6th, 2006 at 00:47
Hmm, I don’t think so - but I’ll ask.
January 6th, 2006 at 00:48
Most cable boxes don’t officially support USB control, so TiVo hasn’t done it. But I hadn’t heard about the keyboard trick, that’s interesting.
And you’re welcome.
January 6th, 2006 at 00:51
you imply a speed increase with the phrase “100baseT should be fast enough” has TiVo talked about speed of TTG or MRV with these units? Has there been any demo of transfers to give a subjective impression of ?
PS thanks for the from the floor reporting of all this. It is great to get this firsthand from someone with the background to convey it all!
January 6th, 2006 at 00:58
No demos, they only have one working HD unit wired up - the one I photographed is (as seen in the photos) only connected to power - there is one connected to a display nearby too. Word is they intend to support MRV and TTG, but you won’t be able to MRV HD content to an SD TiVo - they can’t handle it. And TiVo is still sorting out what the DRM rules will have to be for TTG for things recorded under CableCARD - they need to obey the rules from Cable Labs. But I wouldn’t worry too much about that, they’re not draconian.
January 6th, 2006 at 00:58
I’d have to disagree
Scientific Atlanta’s support of USB keyboard is even in some manuals (see SA 3250HD Interactive Set Top Features List [PDF]). Motorola boxes simply specify “keyboard” in the list of the features. Point is, regular users don’t need USB keyboard to change the channels, but both major manufacturers seem to have it. I can attest to Sci Atl doing it for years 
So I’d presume any set top with USB port on it has it primarily for the keyboard (and wet dreams of “tons of interactive features”). Old style analog-only boxes don’t support anything 
January 6th, 2006 at 01:07
You know, I really didn’t expect to ‘have the scoop’. Since I overslept and then took my time getting over the convention center, I figured the news would be everywhere. I was *shocked* to find, after I’d posted, that it seems no one else had even mentioned the Series3! Let alone post any photos of it. I’ve even had a national publication ask to use one of my photos.
I’m just blown away and laughing my ass off about this. Little TiVoLovers breaking the news. Heh!
January 6th, 2006 at 01:41
Does this support QAM, so that you can get in the clear HD channels?
January 6th, 2006 at 01:43
HAlf the country is on Satellite and this box (series 3) won’t work with them? What is wrong with this pix?
January 6th, 2006 at 01:44
It has to support QAM for digital cable in general, so yes. And my understanding is that it would handle in the clear channels without a CableCARD. But I’ll confirm that.
January 6th, 2006 at 01:46
USB is not a symmetrical Bus. Chances are both the STB and the Tivo
expect to be the master…..
January 6th, 2006 at 01:49
True, but isn’t it possible for a master to emulate a device in software? I thought that was the idea behind things like USB-on-the-go and such, or does it take special HW too?
January 6th, 2006 at 03:30
Nothing at all is wrong with the picture. The only way to support satellite would be with an external tuner, and you couldn’t do any better than the Series2 can today. Since the Series2 isn’t going away, why add cost to this box just to support satellite?
Especially since it is more like a quarter of the TV viewers on satellite, and most of those who opt for a DVR will take one of the models offered by their provider for basically free at this point.
January 6th, 2006 at 05:37
To be honest, while the SATA port is more than a welcome addition to the TiVo box (My mom has already filled her Humax DVD Burner Series 2 up!), the way Tivo actually uses the external hard disk seems sort of like a step backwards to me. I mean, it’s not RAID per se, but the way it works, it does sound like a striped RAID array. And frankly, doing that with an external drive just sounds silly. But on the other hand, you do have to keep the content providers nice and happy (and rolling in dough), so I guess something like that is to be expected.
A shame. Any word on if the external drive will be user servicable? (IE, can we drop a 500 gigger in it if we so choose?)
January 6th, 2006 at 05:58
I hit the last question in another reply - TiVo is hoping to allow users to buy any SATA drive that meets some minimum spec, but it remains to be seen how it works out in the real world.
January 6th, 2006 at 08:16
I didn’t see any mention of the native capacity of the hard drive. What size drive comes standard and how much recording time will it have right out of the box?
captain_video
January 6th, 2006 at 08:20
What is the recording capacity of the Series3? Is that decided yet?
- Craig
January 6th, 2006 at 08:20
The claim is ‘up to 300 hours’, which is certainly SD content and would probably mean a 250GB drive, since that’s what the Humax T2500 has and it has the same SD capacity. But that isn’t finalized yet, and there could be more than one version - just like with the Series2 - with different native capacities.
January 6th, 2006 at 08:21
Heh, someone else just asked that.
Right now ‘up to 300 hours’ - which is SD of course, and implies a 250GB drive. But that isn’t set in stone.
January 6th, 2006 at 08:54
I have been holding off buying a second TiVo until the HD capable version, this is great news! My big question - is it backwards compatible with Series 2? Will I be able to transfer videos from my Series 2 box to the Series 3 and vice versa?
January 6th, 2006 at 09:02
This is the third person in a row to ask this I think.
TiVo’s intention is for the Series3 to do MRV with the Series2 - but not with HD content.
January 6th, 2006 at 09:23
I copied the pics and put them on my server also to help you with bandwidth.
They are located here
http://spidertrace.com/Gallery/Tivo3
January 6th, 2006 at 09:25
Next time you’re with the TiVo guys, ask them if there will be a trade-in program for Series 2 DVRs. The way I see it I have to buy 2 of the HD ones so any way I can save money is a good thing!
January 6th, 2006 at 09:26
No Satellite support? Are they crazy? Dish and Direct are getting ready to roll out the capability to support hundreds of channels in HD, (both the your local affiliates and existing cable channels)- while most digital cable systems appear to be maxed out with their bandwidth at 8-12 channels of HD. So why in the world would I want to stay with cable? (and yes I am aware that most “cable” channels are not in HD - but a big reason for that is because they know that most of them are niche channels and would not be given precious HD bandwidth on cable systems - thact will continue to be reserved for the HBO’s, Showtimes, ESPN’s, Discovery, and maybe a network feed or two, and so these channels have no financial reason to produce HD content that wouldn’t be broadcast.) I was waiting for the standalone HDTivo to ditch my overpriced Comcast, buy a HDTV and go to Dish (which just announced a huge increase in HD channels right across the hall there at CES.) The failure to have a HD input on the series 3 is a monster/huge/potentially fatal design flaw. Why would I want to use the Dish DVR? It sucks.
January 6th, 2006 at 09:31
Thanks!
January 6th, 2006 at 09:32
I imagine it is too early for marketing plans to have been set, but I’ll ask.
January 6th, 2006 at 09:37
Cable networks are nowhere near ‘maxed’ out, and cable MSOs are aggressively adding HD channels. Also, as they convert more analog channels to digital, that frees up bandwidth for more expansion. And there is also the possibility of introducing MPEG-4, as the satellites are, to reduce bandwidth per channel.
And there was NEVER the chance of HD input from an external tuner. That’s a given. Encoding HD on the fly is cost prohibitive, it requires very powerful, very expensive hardware - WELL outside the consumer product range, even the high end. To record HD you need access to the raw digital signal that is already compressed - and you can’t get that from an external tuner. The satellite vendors aren’t going to help others by exposing the data, especially due to DRM concerns.
If you want a satellite HDTV DVR you are going to be stuck with the vendor’s own offering, and that’s that - unless/until the FCC decides to mandate something like CableCARD for DBS, but they’ve shown no inclination to do so.
January 6th, 2006 at 09:39
The picts show missing screws on the back. Looks like the engineers were up late putting in finishing touches. Standard for CES.
January 6th, 2006 at 09:45
I don’t understand how a hard wire could run out of bandwidth before an over-the-air broadcast. DirecTV is allocated a narrow slice of the spectrum, while the cable companies own the entire spectrum on their wires.
January 6th, 2006 at 09:47
Yeah, I was tempted to see if they’d let me open it… Maybe I will ask today…
January 6th, 2006 at 09:48
Cable is still regulated to specific frequency ranges, all systems are. But they still have plenty of bandwidth available.
January 6th, 2006 at 09:53
Current DirecTV HDTivos will not output component if an HDMI cable is connected. Any news if the new units will output both (as long as copyright is not violated) at the same time?
Also nice would be composite/s-video output at the same time as HD output for sharing programming with non-HD displays. Any news on that front?
January 6th, 2006 at 09:58
Not yet - but I’d already thought of that this evening and made a note on my Treo to ask.
January 6th, 2006 at 10:03
I’ve never heard of that before. They own the wire. Maybe there are some interference requirements (e.g., can’t leak interference) But, other than that, they aren’t sharing the bandwidth like broadcast does. I guess they voluntarily share with themselves (e.g., telephone over cable, high-speed internet, etc…)
Regardless, they have orders of magnitude more bandwidth available than directv does.
January 6th, 2006 at 10:07
If you would change the URL to your images to append “.nyud.net:8090″ to the hostname, it would coralize your links. Coral is a Content Distribution Network that is very handy for sites that get posted to slashdot.
See http://www.coralcdn.org/
January 6th, 2006 at 10:13
Just about everything leaks RF, so there are regulations on what frequencies can be used. Also, there are specifications for things like DOCSIS, etc, which specify those ranges and they have to work on the same cable. And they all have to obey the standards for CableCARD, etc, by FCC mandate. They own the infrastructure, but it is regulated.
But yeah, they have more range to play with - and it is easier to expand that lofting birds.
January 6th, 2006 at 10:21
One of the first mirror links posted was for Coral.
January 6th, 2006 at 10:34
Will this be sold to the consumer or the cable companies or both?
Cablevision and Comcast both had press releases last year about working with Tivo on next gen PVRs. If CableCARD works does it make any sense for the cable companies to spin their own variations? So what were those press releases about?
I don’t want a product designed to the cable company’s requirements. I want the max feature set acheivable with CableCARD.
January 6th, 2006 at 10:40
Except for the “super premium” idea, there would not be any other STB, as the S3 (by virtue of CableCard) IS the STB, so no external channel-changing would be necessary. Also, I doubt the MSOs would want to have multiple STBs for any particular service (given the expense), so even the “super premium” thing would be very unlikely.
January 6th, 2006 at 10:40
The Series3 is a consumer product. The Comcast deal involves porting the TiVo software to the Motorola 6412.
January 6th, 2006 at 11:15
http://theomelet.com/index.php?itemid=62
January 6th, 2006 at 11:25
The two biggest complaints in the current product is the slow responsivness in drawing the screen (Overall responsiveness) & the lack of editability of the GUI. (Need more configuration options)
Also, does it have pass through CallerID like ReplayTV has/had?
January 6th, 2006 at 11:29
If the unit is turn off, will it kicks in and tape the show at the right time?
I have series 1 right now, waiting on HD Tivo. Not sure series 2 can do that. The PVR from Time Warner are for my HD shows, and that PVR will kicks in and tape the show even the unit is not turn on.
It is nice to have that feature, because we get a lot thunderstorms in the summer here, and power do flicker on and off, or goes out for a minute here or there.
January 6th, 2006 at 11:32
TiVos are always on, there is no off unless you unplug it. They have a Standby or Sleep mode, but that just disables output, etc
The TiVo always records when it needs to.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:02
Currently shipping Series 2 boxes (7.1.x+) can be activated w/o the phone line. My 540 Series 2 Tivo has never touch a phone jack.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:05
From my experience with CATV they have very few restrictions as to bandwidth imposed by regulation. They can use nearly the entire spectrum. FAA imposed some holes but they don’t ammount to much.
An issue with cable bandwidth is the cabling they use. As far as i know they still have a less than one gigahertz limitation with a single 3/4″ hardline. That’s enough for under 160 channels assuming 6Mhz per channel. I suspect that most cable plants (i.e. cities) can’t use anywhere near 1Ghz of bandwidth due to old amps and such. I’d go with about 500Mhz of bandwidth as a guess.
The satellite providers, on the other hand, have the ability to reuse the same spectrum from each satellite. I’m not really that familiar with the technology but I would guess that each LNA can use the same spectrum over again from two different satellites. Further, the polorization can be used to isolate and re-use the same spectrum. Not sure about this.
WARC92 looks like it left the satellite companies with 500Mhz of spectrum per bird per polorization (i.e. 2x 500Mhz per bird) to play with.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:21
The only reason to buy this unit would be for HD, and you can’t do that with an external box (re-compressing HD on the fly isn’t feasible in consumer electronics).
The HD DirecTivo (being discontinued and soon to be obsolete) can do HD over the air, and from the satellite. This will be able to do over the air and cable. There is no perfect solution to record from any source in HD.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:28
So, is there a technical reason that CableCard doesn’t work with PPV and VoD? It was mentioned earlier that CC 2.0 may work and something about software. If CC 2.0 supports VoD/PPV I’d be on this in a flash. I want one anyway but my wife likes her VoD.
This box looks awesome.
January 6th, 2006 at 12:32
I went to the Time Warner DVRs because I was tired of owning two HD TVs and not getting HD content/5.1 through my home theater.
I tried to turn off the TiVo, but instead they gave both of my TiVo’s a six month service credit. I figured what the heck and left it on, but I’ve not had them call in for a month now.
I really wish they’d get on the ball with this. The longer I have a non-TiVo the more I’m going to be willing to ‘live with it’. I miss being able to pick up the TV and find some recommendation I can watch because nothing else is on, I miss being able to have channels flat out not displayed (Shop @ home, the religious nutjobs, fox news) vs having to skip through them if I just want to channel surf.
They need to hurry. I’ve had TiVo since 2000 and I’m getting ready to not have it anymore.
January 6th, 2006 at 14:05
This is wonderful news, thanks for the extensive report
January 6th, 2006 at 14:26
Are the USB ports 2.0 now? I’d be ok with a WiFi adapter if it was…
January 6th, 2006 at 15:38
just yell - hey look that booth has topless show models and then take some quick pics inside
What I wonder is what kind of CPU and RAM is in there
January 6th, 2006 at 15:56
What we NEED is the same law that required the cable company to get their damn acts together and offer a common interface card standard (CableCard) TO BE FORCED DOWN DirectTV’s throat. I SHOULD have the freedom to buy equipment from ANY provider I choose based upon features and NOT be forced to thru lock in to DTV’s inferior products.
I can tell you this I will CERTAINLY switch to Cable when this box is available. In addition I would suggest to anyone else interested in the open innovation of products to do the same. DTV has lost a very high spender (NFL football pack, HD Fan package add on, Monthly HD package (HD showtime/HBO/ESPN), and their complete (ultimate?) package (all movie channels).
January 6th, 2006 at 17:13
Thanks again.
January 6th, 2006 at 17:17
The reason is that the CC1.0 spec simply doesn’t support upstream communication, the spec is unidirectional.
CC2.0 is supposed to be bidirectional, but the two camps - cable operators and consumer electronics vendors - are fighting over the specification so it has been repeatedly delayed. Cable vendors want a very limited feature set, CE vendors want everything standardized for broad freedom in making new products. It has been a messy fight - CC2.0 was expected last year, and it looks like we may be lucky to see it this year at times.
January 6th, 2006 at 17:23
All Series2 units, except the early models starting with 110/130/140, have USB2.0 hardware. And since 7.x software was released, they all have USB2.0 software as well. So all current systems have USB2.0.
For WiFi I strongly recommend TiVo’s own branded adapter. It was custom designed to work with TiVo and offloads work from the box, allowing it to outperform any other WiFi adapter supported on the box.
January 6th, 2006 at 18:03
You must have the correct hardware to act as a device. USB-on-the-go is the hardware that allows a device to act as either a host or a device.
January 6th, 2006 at 18:26
I to mande it by the TiVo booth and had a lengthly talk with their marketing people. I asked bluntly, why not brand your own DirectTV HD box, and the
response was very disapointing…
Basically it’s this way - In order to make a DTV box, it must be “approved”
by DTV to be supported and DTV has no interest in supporting those “Mac-like TiVo people as they are a dwindling share to the DVR space, they
have little clout” said a DirecTV person at the show.
To DirectTV, TiVo is dead. Although they will continue to support the
programming until all the boxes eventually die and are replaced by
NDS boxes. People returning their DirecTiVo should be cautioned that
they may recieve back an NDS box if they send it in for repair!
Why the HD TiVo lacks an HDMI input port fails me, let alone an
analog component in, there is no technical reasoning for it dispite
what the bonehead marketing guy told me. Fact is they intend with this
box to leave the DirecTivo crowd and DTV hung out to dry. The part is
over and both sides hate each other, you could hear it clearly in their
tone of voice.
Stuck in the middle are about 2.5 million DirecTiVo subscribers who
are now stuck with one of three bad options, Go cable and series2/3, stay with DTV and NDS, drop both altogether and find a new provider.
I have to say personally I am pissed at the way both companies have
handled this. They’ve repaid dedicated early adopters of direcTivo by
ignoring our needs and forcing crap upon us. Say all you want about
the new products and services, but in the end the customer was left
sitting in the dog house as thanks for years of dedication.
Unacceptable. Shame on you DTV and TiVo. Shame on you both!
January 6th, 2006 at 19:01
Homina homina homina!
Better than a Handy Housewife Helper!
January 6th, 2006 at 20:35
Don’t forget that a cable system isn’t just one wire spewing away whatever anyone wants to an essentially infinite number of subscribers without any loss. In fact, it isn’t even mostly copper - the feeds above the head-ends are actually fiber nowadays in all of the more densely-populated areas (i.e., the top few hundred metro areas where about 75% of the population lives). Of course, everything below the head-ends is copper, and a pretty ugly mess, at that, electrically. Until a couple of years ago, even the cable systems in glorious SillyCon Valley (where something like 60,000 millionaires live, so the up-sell for premium services here must be a cable exec’s wet dream) were based on ancient 30+ year old analog dual-wire Comcast/AT&T/TCI/local-yokel infrastructure (each wire was limited to about 30 analog channels), and there aren’t many markets outside of Manhattan and Hollyweird where cable companies can get a better return on their investment.
So, except for a few experimental lash-ups in places like Boise, Idaho, the wiring everywhere else is something mostly less spectacular, down to something resembling tin cans and strings in the most rural areas - actually, that would be an improvement (my brother has done a lot of cable installations and servicing, and you wouldn’t believe how bad it really is in the vast majority of places). Now, toss in all of the signal amplifiers, conditioners, splitters, filters, traps, etc., and you can start to appreciate how limited the bandwidth to any given set-top box really is. Oh, yeah, RF interference cuts both ways, so you also need to consider the ambient noise present on all those phone and power lines that just happen to run parallel to virtually all of that cable system plant and, especially at the higher frequencies, even the smallest gaps in shielding, connector corrosion, and other Very Bad Things in RF-Land. The bottom line is that, until fiber runs all the way to the majority of set-top boxes, there will never be enough bandwidth for a large number of HD feeds.
Contrary to popular belief, it’s a _lot_ easier and more cost-effective to add/replace satellites with upgraded capabilities every few years than it is to upgrade the entire nationwide cable plant to even the best copper cabling, much less fiber (the investment in analog cable infrastructure _before_ digital cable was in the vicinity of 100 billion dollars, while building, launching, and operating a satellite is in the range of a couple of hundred million dollars). A cable plant has to recoup its investment over a period of decades in order to keep the monthly cost down to its not-so-dull roar. Yes, satellite set-top boxes need to be upgraded to the tune of a few billions of dollars nationwide at some point in order to keep up with satellite advances, but we’re still talking about a few percent of the cost of doing the same with cable (where the cable, head-ends, and set-top boxes all need to be upgraded in order for any functional improvement to make it to the consumer). Just for the record, I have both cable and satellite because our employers provide them in our homes as part of broadband Internet access packages so we can work from home during flex hours.
All the Best,
Joe Blow
January 6th, 2006 at 21:19
We need more updates? Will this tivo ever support bidirectional cable cards? Any more hints on when it will be available?
January 6th, 2006 at 22:59
They don’t have an HDMI input port because it isn’t a compressed signal, it is digital but it would need to be compressed in real-time for recording, and that would be cost prohibitive for a consumer product. Note that there are no DVRs with uncompressed HD input, TiVo or not. It is the same problem as recording from component video input. Recording could also be blocked by HDCP.
So there is no shame for TiVo. Satellite is a closed market, and unless the FCC imposes CableCARD-like regulations on them (which they’ve considered but declined to impose) then DirecTV and Dish can lock out 3rd parties.
January 6th, 2006 at 23:08
I’ll be posting more info in a bit.
January 7th, 2006 at 00:36
The reason there is no satellite version is because the satellite companies want you to use their box. The Directv tivo only happened because Hughes struck a deal with tivo. Now they are owned by news corp who already had a dvr.
DBS has 32 transponders (channels) in each location, you can’t put two satellites in the same location. I think they get between 32 and 40 Mbps per transponder. It leaves enough room for about 10 sd channels or barley enough for 3 HD.
If cable dumps analog they will have so much more bandwidth, I believe they are able to get around 40Mps per 6Mhz channel. If DBS was analog they could only run 32 channels per orbital slot. Those analog stations on your cable with snow (usually 75-125 (minus 94-99) actually have digital signals on them. Each system is different and I am not as familiar with cable so I could have some of this wrong.
Back to Tivo, the only reason tivo is able to make this unit is because the FCC requires that cable offer cable cards. There is no requirement for DBS to open their system up.
-Jason
January 7th, 2006 at 01:40
Don’t people with cable do that, too? Take the path of least resistance? I have DirecTV, but chose not to get a DirecTivo because it didn’t have the features that I wanted. I didn’t know about the IFR controls. I did a lot of research, but didn’t understand that reference. Still, it works for me.
I was thinking about getting two more Tivos for this house sometimes soon, but was going to wait for Series 3 and put my current Series 2 in another room. Hmm….
The only way to support satellite would be with an external tuner, and you couldn’t do any better than the Series2 can today.
Why wouldn’t it be better? What is so much better about the Series 3 then? We are thinking about getting an HD TV soon, too, which would also mean upgrading our satellite.
I really like the new remote with the Series 3, too. The Tivo remote is a good one, but I’m glad to see they’ve eliminated that one direction button at the top and instead have individual controls there. Many times I’ve accidentally pushed that one big button in the wrong spot. It’s annoying.
Oh well… This is disappointing.
January 7th, 2006 at 01:41
Our cable company here sucks, and I have no choice to use another–there’s only the one. I had them for only a few months when I first moved here and I still deal with them for internet service. They suck. Their service sucked. It was constantly going out, for one thing. I can deal with the internet going out intermittently, but not the TV. I missed so many of my favorite shows during the few months I had cable here, that it was more than just an inconvenience.
Beyond that, they had no good place to call for help. The people in the office were far away and never even heard of my town and seemed not to know anything ever. (This is still the case.) The local salesman was a complete idiot.
I’d never deal with that company again if I didn’t have to for internet.
January 7th, 2006 at 02:02
The reason it wouldn’t do better than the Series2 is that, at best, you would be recording the same SD signal - S-Video at best. You’re not going to be able to record HD from an external tuner. IR blasters and S-Video input is the best it will get without an integrated DVR. And as long as the cable providers are closed systems they can block third parties, like Tivo, from providing DVRs.
January 7th, 2006 at 03:31
Heh. Most of this went completely over my head. I have no idea what S-video is or SD signal or IR blasters are.
And as long as the cable providers are closed systems they can block third parties, like Tivo, from providing DVRs.
Did you mean satellite providers? If not, I’m even more confused!
January 7th, 2006 at 03:58
S-Video is one of the video connections available on TiVo. On a Series2 (non-DVD) box the quality, lowest to highest, is coax/RF, composite/RCA, and S-Video. S-Video was developed originally for S-VHS systems and it caries separate chroma and luma signals, providing a higher quality picture.
SD is Standard Definition aka 480i, as opposed to ED - Enhanced Definition (480p), or HD - High Definition (720p/1080i/1080p).
IR blasters are the infra-red control cables TiVo, and other devices, use to send remote control signals to external receivers.
January 7th, 2006 at 16:53
Nooooo, is there a way to use the 3 to record in sd then watch live in hd with direct tv. I hate cable and love Tivo. This really sucks. I may have to sell my bran new HD 42 Plasma just to have tivo.
January 7th, 2006 at 21:26
The Series3 doesn’t work with satellite at all.
January 8th, 2006 at 13:01
Will this work as a stand alone OTA DVR without having to subscribe to cable?
January 8th, 2006 at 13:27
Yes.
January 8th, 2006 at 19:50
Cable companies won’t transmit all the local over-the-HDTV channels that I receive from 4 different cities. It also won’t transmit the multiple SDTV channels that are prodcast when a local station is not broadcasting HDTV.
A separate problem is that some claim the HDTV picture quality is much better with an over-the-air antenna versus what a cable company provides.
I think it was a mistake not to include a separate over-the-air antenna input.
January 9th, 2006 at 01:38
Uh, if you’re talking about the Series3 it HAS an antenna input.
There are two input jacks - antenna and cable.
January 19th, 2006 at 19:51
You wont need to install a splitter. The new Tivo Series 3 will have a built in splitter. So if you have a basic cable system with coax cable comming out of your wall, you plug it in the back of the new S3 and (this part is speculation) you can program it to record 2 channels at the same time.
January 19th, 2006 at 20:04
No speculation, that’s exactly how it works.
January 25th, 2006 at 16:06
I just purchased a DirecTV HD tuner. Are you saying that this won’t be usable with the Series 3 Tivo? Or, basically, Series 3 Tivo will not be usable with satellite HD at all?
I don’t really understand. It sounds wildly stupid to me and will definitely mean I won’t be getting a Series 3 Tivo. I have DirecTV because of the NFL package, so I have no options on my HD source. I didn’t purchase the DirecTV HD Tivo because I don’t like to have functions integrated if at all possible. But if Series 3 won’t work with satellite, then I’ll just have to wait til DirecTV to come out with whatever their new system is and get that. Which will be highly disappointing, as I love Tivo, but that will be dispensable before satellite.
January 25th, 2006 at 17:19
It will not work with satellite, period. And it isn’t stupid at all, it is a technical limitation. TiVo doesn’t have a choice, they can’t do HD from satellite unless it is integrated - and the satellite vendors won’t allow an integrated box.
February 4th, 2006 at 17:49
Thanks for the post and the details about what appears to be a great first start on a TIVO HD-DVR. What is missing is burner capability. Would you be able to use the component output (assuming you use the HDMI for the HDTV) to feed something like my Sony VRD-VC20 dual-layer burner? How about the Ethernet port to feed directly to a remote PC on the network? Will there be a Humax Series 3, do you suppose?
February 4th, 2006 at 20:10
No burner - DVD wouldn’t be able to hold HD content, and HD-DVD or Blu-ray is too expensive now, too new. You can still feed the component or S-Video out into an external recorder. And TiVoToGo should be supported for transfers to a PC. No word on what brand the S3 will be available under.
February 27th, 2006 at 14:50
I have a series 2 Tivo, the current model uses those silly little IR rabbit eyes that have to be taped/glued to my existing cable box.. I would love to see a new system that does away with this silly mechanism, and thankfully, I don’t see any such ports for these on the back of the pictures… can anyone confirm how the Tivo will alter the programming with the series 3 model?
many thanks,
robert
February 27th, 2006 at 15:03
The Series3 will not work with a cable box - it isn’t required. The S3 has dual digital cable ready tuners, so it can tune digital and analog cable internally, with no cable box. With CableCARD it can decrypt encrypted digital channels as well.
March 17th, 2006 at 16:37
2 months since last post, but I need help with something.
Why couldn’t the Tivo Box allow for component input (ie, add a component-in connection)? I must be missing something here, but I run a component out of my DTV box to my audio receiver and then another component cable to my TV. The picture passes through with no problems. Taking that set up, replace the audio receiver with a Tivo. You’re saying Tivo is not capable of recording a component video-in signal? This is done on home desktop computers, why can’t it be done with a Tivo box?
I must be missing something because it sounds too simple, huh?
March 17th, 2006 at 16:53
This was discussed in other comments. There are consumer component capture cards, but most, if not all, are SD, not HD. Compressing an analog HD signal in real time takes a lot of power, making it fairly expensive to do at this time. Adding that capability to the Series3 would greatly increase the cost, plus there would still be a quality loss as any realtime encoding can never match the professional multipass encoding at the head end. So real videophiles would prefer a DVR that captures the raw digital data. For the added cost and complexity - not just a much more powerful encoder, but the physical ports, etc, the market isn’t worth it. Note that the S3 has a simplified input - it accepts a cable and antenna input - and that’s it. No A/V in at all. It keeps it simplified and reduces the costs.
March 19th, 2006 at 11:31
I see…I think. lol So I guess I lose. Over-priced and terrible service cable is not an acceptable option for me and DTV’s version of HD TiVo isn’t as feature rich. So my options are drop the features and get my HD content, or keep the features and waste my HD hardware. I think TiVo is going to lose me on this one.
March 21st, 2006 at 14:58
BTW, thanks for the reply. I was pretty confused as to why I couldn’t do what I was questioning. You helped me realize what direction I’ll have to go when I make a change eventually.
March 25th, 2006 at 17:46
The series 3 will replace your cable box, you will get a cable card from your provider and insert it into the series 3 unit.
April 15th, 2006 at 05:53
Am I missing something? Why is it technically impossible to encode an external HD stream, just as the current standalone Tivos do it now with an SD stream? Is the hardware just not up to snuff to handle that or are we talking digital copyright flag?
April 15th, 2006 at 06:03
This has been discussed several times in comments on S3 posts. The short, short version is real-time encoding of an analog HD stream takes powerful, expensive hardware.
April 21st, 2006 at 22:04
The point everyone is missing is this is a stand alone dual tuner option for anyone on cable. I love Tivo and have the Comcast DVR I came from DirecTV but after I moved I can’t get satellite anymore due to trees and a hill. I would love to have a Tivo again but I can’t live with a single tuner as I have about 45 programs I record and many of them overlap and are not reran. This is the answer for people like me who hate the Cable providers DVR so much that they have threatened to smash, burn, and throw it out a window in communications sent to their cable provider. Yes I did say these things in a email. They ignored my comments and told me that it would be as much as a year before a upgraded model will come out will screw them and there $20 up charge for having the use of there piece of junk. I’m getting a Series 3 and it will be by a great deal of control and comments from the wife to keep me from throwing the piece of junk they call a DVR through the window of the local cable office.
April 25th, 2006 at 15:58
Ok so let me get this straight. No satallite will work. But if i order digital tv from Cox communication i i will get digital TV that is HD?
Am i correct?
April 25th, 2006 at 16:07
If you have an HD package from Cox and get a CableCARD (or two) from them, yes.
April 25th, 2006 at 16:20
what would the second cable card do for me? And the t3 would support all channel that cox provides?
April 25th, 2006 at 17:53
CableCARD v1 supports a single tuner, so you’d need two cards to use both tuners. CableCARD w/ Multistream would support both tuners with one card, but that isn’t really deployed yet and may not be by the time the box is out.
And it would probably support all of the channels EXCEPT CCv1 does not support bidirectional communication - so no PPV, OnDemand, etc, from the TiVo. If there is a way to order those services out-of-band (online, phone, etc) then they could probably be tuned by the TiVo.
June 24th, 2006 at 17:33
I am so with you. I *HATE* the Comcast POS DVR. It has more personality quirks than an angry and tired two year old. Looks like the series three is the answer to my prayers. I’ve been hearing rumours of Comcast testing Tivo on their dual tuner DVRs, but I don’t trust Comcast. Where is my series three DVR???
September 27th, 2006 at 10:51
Will this unit be able to record virtually any show/channel ? AND WHAT I MEAN BY THIS…i currently have a sony DVR which being able to record shows on the HD and watch tv also is a mjaor plus…but it will not record all channels…even though tv guide etc and the tv show the shows,,,it sometimes records another channel (dont know why)or the channel line up on the tv guide side doesnt even show that channel. If its manually imputed…it still does not record it correctly…for instance…time warner 149 the outdoor channel. My regular tv shows it..but not the guide…i have these channels as i pay for them….but cannot record them…some people have told me they r copy rite protected…dont by it at all. From my experience…if its protected from being recorded..it will be fuzzy unable to view..but it will record the channel example hbo…is anyone using the dmr sony eh55 ?
September 27th, 2006 at 14:16
You should see http://www.gizmolovers.com/Series3-Review.html and http://www.gizmolovers.com/Series3-FAQ.html
April 20th, 2007 at 21:00
Hey,
I love what you’e doing!
Don’t ever change and best of luck.
Raymon W.
April 20th, 2007 at 21:04
OK, thanks.
July 27th, 2007 at 19:00
Do you know of any way you can transfer shows from the HD3 to a HD2 unit (Not HD show of course!). It is irritatin whan you tape an extra show on another TIVO and you have to watch it in bed. Hae you tried Apple TV yet? I just got it and so far it is totally cool!
July 27th, 2007 at 19:11
Multi-room viewing, which allows you to move shows between TiVos, is supposedly being enabled later this year.
As for AppleTV - I’m just not interested in it. It is an over-priced media center extender and I don’t really have any use for it. I can use my TiVo to play music or view photos through my stereo system. I never buy video from ITMS because it is overpriced for what you get - I rent from Unbox on TiVo if I want video downloads. And I don’t really watch much web video.
There just isn’t any appeal in AppleTV for me.
September 22nd, 2007 at 18:23
Thats true about the design, I like the postmodern look on it…
January 8th, 2008 at 23:40
So my local cable company (mediacom…. i’m located in iowa) is going to be switching to SD cable sometime in the near future. I have the HD tivo and an hdtv (the reason for getting the hd tivo). Does anyone know what is going to happen with the technology when this happens? what things are coming out that will enable me to view hd channels since mediacom is getting rid of the cablecards? am i going to need to take back the tivo and subscribe to the cable company’s DVR?
January 8th, 2008 at 23:47
Cole, You mean SDV - Switched Digital Video? Note that it does not ‘get rid of’ the CableCARDs, SDV still uses them. There is a solution coming - see the more recent posts.
January 9th, 2008 at 06:39
but there is no hd inputs on the hdtivo and if my cable company is going to be encoding the hd signals with encoding that doesn’t use a cablecard…. by switching to SDV cable mediacom is basically making the cablecard useless, correct???
January 9th, 2008 at 09:48
Cole - They are NOT going to be encoding with and encoding that doesn’t use CableCARD. That’s not not what SDV is, it doesn’t even have anything to do with the way the video is encoded. It is a transmission and tuning level issue. Like I said, see the more recent posts - but if nothing else, read this one.